From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thibaut Verron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:51:53 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> <20200909165723.kdnwicwvplmezusr@Ergus> <20200910102000.2t6tsju745xutg7u@Ergus> <20200910110832.ko66gqnqo4l664d6@Ergus> <20200911134225.zhnlq7cdhmu2iraj@Ergus> <20200911221435.go7b5kz2zcvxp2ft@Ergus> <83sgbnecka.fsf@gnu.org> <83een7e48t.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000abe63505af2b84c0" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13467"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Ergus , casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 13 07:52:41 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHKwL-0003Pu-J1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:52:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39938 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHKwK-0006dG-LS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 01:52:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59150) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHKvs-0006Cm-6m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 01:52:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32e]:35350) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHKvq-0002cl-KM; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 01:52:11 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id y15so8207071wmi.0; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 22:52:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=+LwQI5x8bN0GVgIMoFE7Fmg1tapIChIZMmp2M4aWZqk=; b=b6bXQ+Q9s14t0Stytb8YmAof4wiZ6y0ITnv0Yc8+kmWbM72jq6mmKzXtA58Girv0JC +hLUuGdQDDJjqC+/qzFFmVtBdvNvVJP3KsKF2RPyx02wNwgfe2VCQQsuoHw6KLcJszB5 MDeahEdCFqQ1DBFwG7kqdEmXuCYzax30pbrXQ4ZVItiEMCaF2QZxyG2vFOaErElJeY40 ACRlBaxGsHGyKGCckvH2W8SgYd6XirIkOD6WJqUF2gJLYtzvzFv7GPm6x4LDt/SPDJD5 3tuoylFW6W3p2xSuSPNGWjbYsEekDtWwodH+u5pBHTDRHro1a8mmM6xTHwXhPK06UubW R6SA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+LwQI5x8bN0GVgIMoFE7Fmg1tapIChIZMmp2M4aWZqk=; b=FbNlxJf6YBTTWTARpRUtmS2y9qgbQ/1XPVsLHEWz1ANzt9/5wgZ0vos5Oc6ekRi2Kk zG+hIYRG3Q0QlbOXq5ZCtHb/EmeP953RgXJZmkPEyz0RsDqpWjjWdz8EtT4LU8NOS+lG AmwNoZqEK9SNKenLSuT6O8YoGMDWHdG6YkAnymG53Bxnfom+Q9lMn7KhPUND+GanI0tY c6Dpa4DaHSoKPG+zlt++3M/vISaWN0jsZvoJiiKl1sLUHSqJNsblAGfot+k/8OcO5e+u glkY3MANQq4khbrvQvIn/BmWJd5rGEgW1hCAgJEZkODSupwh33r3tygayBeL7ULu2jSe 5e6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530if7v6NA7WIxttmgr4G+BK+QtqBozzHTWFOcqk+iIe238Gg01R ZbGoYy7lpPFWKuUjkcjOMXqvVJpsx4u+Q6IptHH0nYyXlNeCxw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzUigOZN9SJXRB/uhijNQfXpWFKb4P1QsZIYzYB+JGVRlux5EzbL+loyL9fDCrKLLonB9EnRO6hKqQITKaPWgY= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c1d9:: with SMTP id a25mr9778412wmj.4.1599976327864; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 22:52:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83een7e48t.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32e; envelope-from=thibaut.verron@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255438 Archived-At: --000000000000abe63505af2b84c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le sam. 12 sept. 2020 =C3=A0 11:25, Eli Zaretskii a =C3=A9cr= it : > > > >> 4) Right click: (Probably it is the most lacking functionality and > > >> surprising for any user not using the terminal.) Right click is > > >expected > > >> to bring a panel with the most common operations. It is useful, fast > > >> and somehow standard since 1995 while removing most of the needs of > > >the > > >> toolbar which takes precious vertical space. > > > > > >We have this on C-mouse-2 and C-mouse-3. Putting those on mouse-2 and > > > > The menu we have in C-mouse-3 does not show the most basic options like > copy, paste, and so on to > > access them fast. > > Why should it? We show the menu for the current major mode, which is > IMO more useful than basic editing. > Is it? What feature of your major mode do you use more often than copy/paste? It's a pity too many newbies don't see the menu bar and the tool bar, > because all this was arranged to have all the important features be > readily available through the different UI elements. With the menu > and the tool bar removed, we don't have enough UI elements to satisfy > all the important needs. Which is one more reason to encourage > newbies to start with the vanilla Emacs, not with the hyper-loaded > "distros". > I believe that mouse users have muscle memory for right-click, 15 px down, left-click, where we have M-w. Moving the mouse to the top of the screen for the same operation is a lot slower. --000000000000abe63505af2b84c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Le sam. 12 sept. 2020 =C3=A0 11:25, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
=

> >> 4) Right click: (Probably it is the most lacking functionalit= y and
> >> surprising for any user not using the terminal.) Right click = is
> >expected
> >> to bring a panel with the most common operations. It is usefu= l, fast
> >> and somehow standard since 1995 while removing most of the ne= eds of
> >the
> >> toolbar which takes precious vertical space.
> >
> >We have this on C-mouse-2 and C-mouse-3. Putting those on mouse-2 = and
>
> The menu we have in C-mouse-3 does not show the most basic options lik= e copy, paste, and so on to
> access them fast.

Why should it?=C2=A0 We show the menu for the current major mode, which is<= br> IMO more useful than basic editing.

Is it? What feature of your major mode d= o you use more often than copy/paste?=C2=A0

It's a pity too many newbies don't see the menu bar and the tool= bar,
because all this was arranged to have all the important features be
readily available through the different UI elements.=C2=A0 With the menu and the tool bar removed, we don't have enough UI elements to satisfy all the important needs.=C2=A0 Which is one more reason to encourage
newbies to start with the vanilla Emacs, not with the hyper-loaded
"distros".

I believe that mouse users have muscle memory for right= -click, 15 px down, left-click, where we have M-w. Moving the mouse to the = top of the screen for the same operation is a lot slower.
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