From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thibaut Verron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: non-gnu elpa issue tracking Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 11:08:01 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20201209125516.lenqswi7fhiscbr2@E15-2016.optimum.net> Reply-To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21127"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Boruch Baum , Stefan Kangas , Richard Stallman , Jean Louis , Emacs developers To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 12 11:09:04 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ko1po-0005O0-Ab for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 11:09:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47124 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ko1pn-0002iD-C0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 05:09:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47984) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ko1p1-0002CN-Tc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 05:08:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c]:37604) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ko1p0-0002kV-2p; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 05:08:15 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com with SMTP id w139so10525448ybe.4; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 02:08:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OgguOrUvtBnFVJvjpMtnKlPyRt6OZ+upu/u+z4K1abM=; b=r/9rc5XqUyI4JxprypBwV3lExqpcmc0KGb1HGko3E81aYmDbPpSl3MVdjY2YQiOVaV eBJgy99qg9ONIidiuUqbWG0KZCc+zEyCVPiKHOCN72p3Dj6dUmQV8cd/r32cTTZbPfgs Nu0gxhmHubBohnIR7fwHxKQ8W9egJXGam0LRUTZsbV5kzXHQTB0xntCXEOL5BVWwEGRe XX0pSlPT1DsMNz24vnpseSkqBGKTO8e4BjjxIjwaw98PKOnZaroYjfYBCXTiVv/Njvvy s2cQr9mnODSOMXHuhXQi5Syo3kpvF+r73/vvLTdakcO0h8th1JrF/2evtNVp7vcMEPZq /u+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OgguOrUvtBnFVJvjpMtnKlPyRt6OZ+upu/u+z4K1abM=; b=C4b1iLremzHLxDOUhi/BWObnR/C+4MAtk4Gw/o9bg1eUtdfY9DUVJBgiS4JDE1iqyo gj9bw1kjUUINqky69wlwROzEyqVluESt42NmfiUXVo+byOVVGq+72KGZTAf1QBRMyyWA IANXR4L3YD8vYphTu9UbrcXIpdvMzeq8/A2jrLdZANZGfO0AdvqB90Drsepx4qjC1hfY YSfoMOWdeDZ53KyRYRVNePc6WDi0VV5kIa9cFmkP4rZ3iHYK5mxAVxWRV7B4Hx3VI0TM iVdKCq1XC33ipQntin6RNTVWdXz2itWjQ2ObZXnpQ1bjIwdaBDSs54MfD8pFilKhEovN mrPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531CBJtZLKR+mg1UJ6rSdRia5WhpbEXCQbvfkhHSz+aKiKJp/4XX S9zv113IJZ4xAxt4xgK54hoSNmddvdSDTpBzb1g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx5YbMSzvqMm3vfS3oql9gYHi5n54xSrkWnLaFzmDdm8hDt7Hy+VKPiewyMmGRIxJV6txIPPi3uE8NeEw1km4M= X-Received: by 2002:a25:2407:: with SMTP id k7mr15074136ybk.147.1607767692782; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 02:08:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c; envelope-from=thibaut.verron@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260712 Archived-At: Le sam. 12 d=C3=A9c. 2020 =C3=A0 07:37, Tim Cross a= =C3=A9crit : > > Bottom line is that if packages in non-GNU ELPA are hosted on Github, lik= e it or not, you are encouraging the use of Github. Yes, there are many Git= hub features you can access from the command line and via other means, like= commenting on issues via email, but these other mechanisms typically take = more effort and are not as convenient (and have limitations - you cannot us= e markup when commenting on issues via email for example). > > The non-GNU ELPA is supposed to be a repository for packages which are GP= L compliant and it is a reasonable expectation that those who make their pa= ckages GPL compliant do so because they support the philosophical goals of = the FSF. GPL licensing is what's the default elisp auto-insert inserts. And apparently it's not even clear if it is legal to license packages under any incompatible license. I wouldn't read a statement of support in the mere fact that a package if GPL compliant. I also recall a discussion where some developers were worried that assigning a copyright to the FSF was an official statement of philosophical support, and that it was a statement they were not willing to make. The official answer was that there is no such statement in the copyright. > Therefore, I don't think it is too much to ask that they also have those = packages hosted on a platform which also supports these same philosophical = goals. As I understand it, non-GNU ELPA is not supposed to be a repository = for all other packages where the author doe snot want to assign copyright t= o the FSF. It is supposed to be for all other GPL compliant packages where = the author does not want to assign copyright to the FSF. Or can't. In a lot of cases it turns out that contacting all contributors to obtain copyright assignment is a difficult task, or that some contributors are not legally allowed to transfer their copyright. > I think a mandatory requirement should simply be that any packages which = go into non-GNU ELPA are hosted on an approved platform. We could point to = a list of such hosting providers e.g. https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-cri= teria-evaluation.html and say Grade C or better only. . There is no such requirement for GNU ELPA at the moment. > This will also have the added incentive of encouraging better hosting opt= ions. It might even encourage GitLab for example, to enhance their environm= ent to meet Class B. Couldn't it just as well be an occasion to encourage Github to improve? > Many people have selected Github for hosting simply because it was the be= st known solution. With a little encouragement, they would probably be will= ing to move to at least GitLab, which offers many of the similar convenienc= e features of Github. Being able to host your package in non-GNU ELPA migh= t be that encouragement. There is a lot of inertia involved in relocating a package with hundreds of contributors. I agree that some of the difficulties posed by copyright assignment do not apply for relocation (e.g. that one contributor 7 years ago whom nobody can contact), but there is an effort involved in both.