From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thibaut Verron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key and reserve it for third-party packages Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:19:54 +0100 Message-ID: References: <7ef75c33936136eb3a20@heytings.org> <7e12c1c3c15d0bc931e3@heytings.org> <87ft2541sr.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <8ed9b4350249f7d93b0f@heytings.org> Reply-To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21336"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Sean Whitton To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 09 19:21:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l9Xdh-0005RB-16 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 19:21:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46694 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l9Xdg-0005Lz-3w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 13:21:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41004) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l9XcH-0004GD-SW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 13:20:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2a]:33814) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l9XcD-0005Ic-KE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 13:20:01 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com with SMTP id d184so7788040ybf.1 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 10:19:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=DMh/xnkMPqGBugarItd6kj7HfOKSIDwDjX5jM3UFSLY=; b=H3P6q9kuVXSu1o9XPYLqrzbySLJ87Ueji2Y3NbmuQHSBaiSR/hUTavvPv5CsnbMnRj CBnd68AiwN9jOqMKdqsCsRzUpP68EirCPcWNsqyDHOW0UtAgtMStM3tsjn/zVPouuSj3 F9m0fX0D8TR6q659TXRlihelk0/DLqCE3OV0vHz7XIY+8dwLCZuxWItzCvr5KpknOjdX Q63rEiZ5dSzPaz9DOeK0e22fwSGc5GkWn3laYncNfO+619MvP0WQP7MmsnvsDLVADRNQ zPRSEhogLPENovKKbT8xg73/GwR7emhf8S2635AXloBO1I/g94LezoMS45v75M4Vj4AT 4V9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DMh/xnkMPqGBugarItd6kj7HfOKSIDwDjX5jM3UFSLY=; b=Hr8/De+BgG5g+02lQKwqMGsJZ0+PJxjfP9KDCYZ6aM7NbnAyZMA8EInJQMqkXVFkrY rM+rc1i7zryQ5XjRSPdi7FZMT8tjmWsYVgng7d/ZAy3vTJQj0JRXmK8A0VUYeC0R+uyH BMTO1OautY8lTmUEXp4zNJPdhPvpium4XCPrdAMmFXBBHm96QOu9ieoO6w1owJE3SMxF InMfd6oiDcoF2hbkg8V+1bEO1c0gaEBuJ9ptoeohc+PYiSJuui5a8yZUxn78R52gpQax joKvv4cWdclAn+PlKrzrobHKJOr3lhWR/1yT4G17LuyI8F4LjHzXW2uc8g4F/rXk6y90 KAgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531JDzCLTXCoP36jlym0gxTVoEd30lF8atDlRIKuqC4TRfN8thHH tdv4Mg52uAj5vrVt5PCq/kBYM6Gnuf5U1uw8cYA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwQ4q2OPZl4C1SGlthQdfpaUqu+/CddfD7x4Hr8MIU8usMdh+TUJySvf5hCJxZUyD5VWUDLM1QcVISnqlA3lGM= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d296:: with SMTP id j144mr21704286ybg.33.1612894795440; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 10:19:55 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 2002:a05:7110:6187:b029:31:9798:b166 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 10:19:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8ed9b4350249f7d93b0f@heytings.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2a; envelope-from=thibaut.verron@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264233 Archived-At: 2021-02-09 18:19 UTC+01:00, Gregory Heytings : > >>> How about C-\ or C-^? Historically these were used as substitutes for >>> C-s and C-q when editing via serial lines (and there's still a function >>> enable-flow-control that activates it). Certainly that's no longer a >>> frequent use case? >> >> C-\ is used to set the input method. But we could move that >> functionality to C-^, and then give up C-\ to third party packages. >> > > Except that \ is hard to type on most keyboards: C and \ are the two most > distant keys on the most widespread keyboard layout (QWERTY), and on other > keyboards \ requires pressing Shift or AltGr. I don't quite get how you reach that conclusion about the qwerty keyboard. On my ISO102 qwerty keyboard, \ is diagonally adjacent to left control (regardless of whether it's at its original position or on capslock), and there is another \ left of RET, so two keys above, one left of right control. With an ANSI keyboard, it's only available on one key, which is 3 keys above right control. So in both cases, I don't think it qualifies as "the most distant key" from control. To the contrary, I'd say that it is too close to it to be comfortable to type if you don't use different hands for modifier and key. And while \ indeed is a pain to type on non-qwerty layouts, on an azerty keyboard, the corresponding keys are < and *, both of which are free with a C- modifier. On a qwertz it's < and $, which again are free with a C- modifier. (Those are the keyboards I can look at here, I don't know how it generalizes.)