From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thibaut Verron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:29:12 +0200 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000048b3ed05b08b3d84" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4093"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel , Dmitry Gutov To: "T.V Raman" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 19:32:08 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNfxY-0000wp-2f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:32:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42876 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNfxX-0004RL-3H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:32:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50810) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNfut-0003Dn-Jl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:29:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]:39404) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNfur-0002b3-SR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:29:23 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id k10so2707063wru.6 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 10:29:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=8dPj0NkVn0ukvXFlGdiKLbcWwfRZFo19QnhNzSOoKA4=; b=pMv8mnhDQucqGif1JLPsT0q5/ub76ULkqP2+8GMsPJKYON4FVsDVtE5QpEH3vCXPeJ rMJgDrJYRBp1z3LFLFABPuGK8tBYIGze6xp9yZREl5+C3DmqLutQiUYGiINZsm92PiY4 /f7Ja3GXNAjGjCAgnTe6qK8VgOuZuqgIcSItnOFVBgaTbaLeutflCsvbms6KarNqTlot 6y1SlPkreajTGhgDUtNTfblxCLcBxAFeAaHbKP117voq0eYt1qXzSLyqCmqikS8sqQom eQbjgNCqB81kE09VyH6zKx8yBEwklcKbuNjBwQFLRRQlnwVi+FqobvR0G2Hyc2S4n54/ SQIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8dPj0NkVn0ukvXFlGdiKLbcWwfRZFo19QnhNzSOoKA4=; b=VLG+h6krIS6rmAASfQwP64RjewgRUYg36I4OdpoMSxyWha207ZJL5+LhyyZ64SVDy2 OCNK3XGZQmqAn8+fCJ0GZCekKWdwJDzQxzexLNSxrEtcSf3Tz9javcFApzcpsRJj6fwJ OLAoVwGJ8O5vbJpIsCmYZ7aFYk7Bl7mFIhWRPsi+uJKLO48NHNA5j5P2JuBUAaw6bdyH pJdHFslzN3vGve/+fuQZPalOu6VpkFLZkw+BHfjVDE+QyV35LMTzJQ/iEkaM2Q82r3ZW KZnHOQl40/SBDf7bQ5eY82xRI7cMhiOiyK8JJUohIcXvTcwgs0DFa8/S4gL6KeabH76V 2oww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ED3ksYgIJz0xM2H+pQWfhlWqhp/QNCVY5miuBJrCCBCBbQmf+ 5zTm5GeWX4QQ85JIV1ehS0sXswcoMjmgKqwwKZ8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxPfHN+kFAHuw5P2+z0c4cF44T3D8JznyBt87wsrgn5kiLfdlIKQjHISwnfiL8bgbjGa7rDj9caQutYjbZYVfQ= X-Received: by 2002:adf:f106:: with SMTP id r6mr4376190wro.106.1601486958669; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 10:29:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42a; envelope-from=thibaut.verron@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256780 Archived-At: --00000000000048b3ed05b08b3d84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le mer. 30 sept. 2020 =C3=A0 18:58, T.V Raman a =C3=A9cr= it : > > > Almost as courageous as Lars' request to change line-length limits > (hopefully not quite as controversial) > > Perhaps it's time we opened up some additional keymaps so that we can > experiment with keybindings without causing too much trouble for > long-term users. I don't understand the purpose. Would those new keymaps be for temporary, experimental, bindings, to be later moved to a better position? Or would they be meant to be eventually used by default? > > Proposal: > > 1. C-z as a prefix --- at present c-z runs suspend-frame under X, and > suspends Emacs on the console. > > Perhaps turn C-z into a new prefix key, and bind the above commands > to C-z z -- that gives us a whole new keymap to play with for the > future. I personally like to have C-z free. I use it when I need to pass keypresses to applications without caring about Emacs missing them. For instance my Screen prefix key is C-z. Suspend-frame is bound to C-x C-z (which makes sense to me with the other C-x bindings). So I would immediately undo such a change in my configuration. More importantly, C-z suspending the terminal application is a common binding. One could argue that we have enough trouble with non-standard bindings in Emacs not to add more now. Maybe this behaviour could be preserved in non-GUI interfaces and the (hypothetical) C-z key reserved for commands which only make sense in a graphical setting? I cannot think of a single such command at the moment, though. > > 2. F2 is currently taken up by 2c (2column support) and perhaps it's > time to recover that key, I suspect 2c is not as heavily used to > justify a common key like F2, and it would still have C-x6 > dedicated to it if we take F2 away from it. > I just tried -s to see what it is about, now my Emacs is frozen (100% CPU). As far as I'm concerned this key can (and will) die tomorrow. :) --00000000000048b3ed05b08b3d84 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Le mer. 30 sept. 2020 =C3=A0 18:58, T.V Raman <raman@goo= gle.com> a =C3=A9crit :
>
>
> Almost as courageous as Lars' request to change line-length limits=
> (hopefully not quite as controversial)
>
> Perhaps it's time we opened up some additional keymaps so that we = can
> experiment with=C2=A0 keybindings without causing too much trouble for=
> long-term users.

I don't understand the purpose. Would those new keymaps be for temporar= y, experimental, bindings, to be later moved to a better position? Or would= they be meant to be eventually used by default?

>
> Proposal:
>
> 1. C-z as a prefix --- at present c-z=C2=A0 =C2=A0runs suspend-frame u= nder X, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 suspends Emacs on the console.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Perhaps turn C-z into a new prefix key, and bind the abov= e commands
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to C-z z -- that gives us a whole new keymap to play with= for the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 future.

I personally like to have C-z free. I use it when I need to pass keypresses= to applications without caring about Emacs missing them. For instance my S= creen prefix key is C-z. Suspend-frame is bound to C-x C-z (which makes sen= se to me with the other C-x bindings). So I would immediately undo such a c= hange in my configuration.

More importantly, C-z suspending the terminal application is a common bindi= ng. One could argue that we have enough trouble with non-standard bindings = in Emacs not to add more now.=C2=A0

Maybe this behaviour could be preserved in non-GUI interfaces and the= (hypothetical) C-z key reserved for commands which only make sense in a gr= aphical setting? I cannot think of a single such command at the moment, tho= ugh.

>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2. F2 is currently taken up by 2c (2column support) and p= erhaps it's
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0time to recover that key, I suspect 2c is no= t as heavily used to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0justify a common key like F2, and it would s= till have C-x6
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0dedicated to it if we take F2 away from it.<= br> >

I just tried <f2>-s to see what it is about, now my Emacs is frozen (= 100% CPU). As far as I'm concerned this key can (and will) die tomorrow= . :)
--00000000000048b3ed05b08b3d84--