From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thibaut Verron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 07:02:36 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20201016130235.06218dae@argon> <20201016142436.187b8210@argon> <20201016152523.6fdfef65@argon> <6142a27f-c53b-35bf-1038-5f047395e868@yandex.ru> <20201016204531.77fab05b@argon> <725aa7c4-321f-4483-5a21-a148ff7f119b@yandex.ru> <20201016191758.GK11061@protected.rcdrun.com> <86b80c47-873b-5e83-cea0-5ac1927f0015@yandex.ru> <20201016200305.GO11061@protected.rcdrun.com> Reply-To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24231"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: mve1@runbox.com, Dmitry Gutov , Jean Louis , emacs-devel To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 17 07:04:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kTeO1-0006Bc-1A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 07:04:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53078 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTeO0-0000zV-3d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 01:04:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47694) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTeMl-0000CO-48 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 01:02:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]:39403) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTeMj-0001M4-Aa; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 01:02:50 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id 67so3685560ybt.6; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 22:02:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SEkUhNi+cxNSmyYrryQxA3/co6F0mK4L4IYP/58Tb28=; b=NjVcvr7acei5SZv08M6CpJHFiYRERGyhnG2rc/Nxcjv6GSqBh3GQZZXrItREuNg1mw wrPC/EGohz8d4icydXp0hcSn46SDRAgPvOjJrv6yd+nDYV/5lvDANvTB6OBJ3laiWGmX 4Iq1EvFJphLK4rfpqA+vtcKnatsz2KjX1cVZhGrOu6EnBwAPTgspjL4Ya7/hd/ATs8SR XQaka85X7urqjTx0om0sSqt/aujme05h3rFjBmPV0qfsz9KyYYoIf13LjIyeiz7GWWZv LcrhjAqR7pG6rl53FJG+KbEyQEOBL2QsxZ2R3znMLHWQDTKSzc9hlp+5Zxs1FwHfI1sL FDRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SEkUhNi+cxNSmyYrryQxA3/co6F0mK4L4IYP/58Tb28=; b=SU3ZjVhXfc96mM0Y4STlyyB7yYqkWwWohhWoE2lWM5WiWRr5AofVaz5qcDxsJErCSS LOQy1wiBzys+fK0j/Wlw8WyMfv2PSqrTL4ZRtSKQSOsr3LxoJSJW/0hgSU9j1gcPL37Z htucTEtIjbKBrg9WkLXfuXneKC8XJ18V3Nmh0gjm0Vu0Ku/dgBD47HXLN+BtzAEAfljP ReE5oi7brfQy5kKRx0DzBKaKO0KAYRCWL5vv9//glBbDwYrFtvUmH0ZlQTovpHmlLZBt pJtCyU7mqk0YkI/tRjuH/EClCf+rx/P/aDfGSZPSTmPymD3OXmwSili6TzCQl5aBfMiv MuDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5334UclGQG6vC7pORQnBqerI4qdERLvCo7e6UoudmSzSBRg+qFeH E5lHVKrcyCC27FTSCrH7PnYAp8coAHd7SAASwrbkljpx X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxv/bOA31Od+nAJ+J7RhR6EGoFfAd5SOkXbVGng31QqkYT6oGZN9txdFZWxFQm1Pd7U/9gdQgi36Ajlr3UMGbo= X-Received: by 2002:a25:bcc9:: with SMTP id l9mr8994947ybm.183.1602910967694; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 22:02:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e; envelope-from=thibaut.verron@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257908 Archived-At: Le sam. 17 oct. 2020 =C3=A0 06:19, Richard Stallman a =C3=A9c= rit : > > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > Imagine if free software repository would publish only software tha= t > > > wraps around proprietary software, would that be free? So it is mat= ter > > > of policy. > > > Incidentally, if Melpa agrees to your request to remove all packages > > wrapping around proprietary software, it will be a matter of days > > before such a repository appears. > > To move all the recommendations of nonfree software > OUT of Melpa, and into some other obscure new repository, > would be a great step forward! It would eliminate one > of the reasons why currently we must not inform people about Melpa. It would not be obscure for very long, because most of the Emacs blogs would not refrain from advertising it. Moving the free packages to a GNU-managed non-GNU Elpa is imo a better way to achieve such separation between free and non-free community packages. > > > And yes, it would be free, in my opinion. Because users are free to > > use Emacs in whichever way they want, including in workflows involvin= g > > non-free software. > > Indeed they are, but you've changed to a different question. > I don't think I did. Making it as hard as possible for users to find packages necessary for their workflow is acting against that freedom, in my opinion. > > > > For same reaso Debian GNU/Linux cannot be said to be free, at many > > > pages they guide users to include non-free software, unspoken from > > > Archlinux or other distributions. > > > This is, again, a matter of opinion. > > You're entitled to your opinion, but this list is for discussing what > to do in the GNU Project. In the GNU Project, this question is a > matter of stated policy. > > In https://gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html, > our criteria say this is not acceptable. That is why we classify > Debian as nonfree in https://gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html. As well as, apparently, all other major GNU/Linux distributions. I wonder how many users would know about the GNU project if not for those non-free distributions. And there seems to have been no problem in publishing that list on gnu.org, even though it names a number of non-free options. Why can't the same be done with Melpa ?