From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Justin Burkett Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 21:49:54 -0500 Message-ID: References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <87le84oqbd.fsf@yahoo.com> <87plxdpsxw.fsf@posteo.net> <87r0hridvr.fsf@posteo.net> <5dd3d04c-c0eb-43fe-b7c2-957f80261ea3@gutov.dev> <87eddqiw84.fsf@posteo.net> <32071337-c91d-46ad-bb9b-10b8d0c83965@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36549"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Philip Kaludercic , Po Lu , Jeremy Bryant , Emacs Devel To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 06 03:50:52 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rXBXw-0009L7-Bc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2024 03:50:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rXBXH-0004lO-8M; Mon, 05 Feb 2024 21:50:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rXBXF-0004lF-UV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2024 21:50:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x529.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::529]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rXBXD-0008LG-Vm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2024 21:50:09 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x529.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55f0b2c79cdso6152625a12.3 for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2024 18:50:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=burkett-cc.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1707187806; x=1707792606; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=QSfOhr/Imt1o6zRkGq/Gztas6z2pjJSfkaqzGi/xQgk=; b=wFRWncwD1l4660Dhaq6+LdpsBE676YSfC3axyFr853Ywpxk6ChKPBUMGsUaJq4KZTO 8csZHwNYRwSiYo8oqy6uXI+lZWnCi6boxWLgEXr95YKL0TOfV4X8odxoakOPpNGigqHa WUX3d1IKfo+Ae3cb4uQYu/4WhLWpZZnHdwgfij2JAe/sWcushdoanC1oa2OhrncO9OBY LDQEkaohn5aYKUrGL+Cqn6YXGisyQKtKgMo8xCNPgwanFvZKhuBvCM+8mvoI3vAaaC1v 6nTE2ep1U2JsEUJN0h6QS5KV/zZrzkwIgrp8sCMtmps3lLFrsysJ0rkcrytSxBEwofs/ xafQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1707187806; x=1707792606; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QSfOhr/Imt1o6zRkGq/Gztas6z2pjJSfkaqzGi/xQgk=; b=GPMlmt9aMlmkWeppP9K2Q7kfNxKoNPKVtxOAYcMaw1vIiEEjVwIJXHN99F9f9iadKb /kD3dx9TXTeWnVlXlRZSu16lmz1MhjryIAH10Av4rXMLwGaYKfSQLrzzLBwTlkx48x8l 7CVDCh3JS14uA6y5kARRQ/ZcPsucEsw757CsjlYIkSut0MfCUhNhx38b8yau3T5g4VFI 5bG6OAMVLFLqwGmdUtVK67c+IrunUGJrW+umGzXel6rnlX7COqOvhUjGVLF0Q3tM6kKz +DRY+DwpqZEVM0Np66zoXVoZCn1OKt6SWEURueKmKmrNssLBQDKvccTCyZL6x73W4lFG GO2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwZ6XL5CLE+uyKZqcDtjijQp5eHpH9dp1vpk6+8sGNS68qskUej jRYuKEyAgqWK50RPTmYbbY7y9zWkUNSdqMxSyx+L8gK2kBWLnB47ZAn2M/1Y9gQGlz4m+DP+/0J EiuNxPbfrrds8sYRWXgLIBkB8c/iJR7XZvbQZ9H97XxxtV76LcuU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEK+KtG86Wd7F+oSBq1sDlenSLOo/aVKHnbPrnDIHTR4t16/gVAC/Hz3o9CRWsl9fyZ5Q9G6YMox82OcNYaaBI= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:cfc5:0:b0:55f:2a30:a79d with SMTP id r5-20020aa7cfc5000000b0055f2a30a79dmr456288edy.42.1707187805641; Mon, 05 Feb 2024 18:50:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: none client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::529; envelope-from=justin@burkett.cc; helo=mail-ed1-x529.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315910 Archived-At: On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 6:05=E2=80=AFPM Dmitry Gutov wrot= e: > > On 05/02/2024 21:33, Justin Burkett wrote: > >> If you like which-key's UI (and I don't mind it, aside from the timer > >> thing -- seems like it can be more useful than the current > >> 'describe-bindings' in many cases), then we could ask the author for > >> this different mode of operation, where the timer only tells the user > >> how to get this transient menu with hints (pressing C-h), but the menu > >> itself isn't shown. > >> > >> Or more generally we'll have such a timer globally, and the message > >> ("use C-h") would be independent from which-key. But which-key can plu= g > >> into the "C-h" binding one way or another, to replace describe-binding= s > >> if the user configured it this way. > > I'm the author of which-key, and I've been following along but don't > > have a strong opinion on whether it should be on by default, so I'll > > let you all decide. > > > > I should mention in response to the comments above that this feature > > is partially implemented through the following setup (from the > > README). It simply sets a long delay for the timer and allows you to > > use C-h to trigger the popup. > > > > ;; Allow C-h to trigger which-key before it is done automatically > > (setq which-key-show-early-on-C-h t) > > ;; make sure which-key doesn't show normally but refreshes > > quickly after it is > > ;; triggered. > > (setq which-key-idle-delay 10000) > > (setq which-key-idle-secondary-delay 0.05) > > (which-key-mode) > > Nice, thanks. These settings are for the second option, right? "More > generally ...", etc. > > What is missing is the note in the echo area that tells the user to > press C-h after a timeout (like 200ms or so) if they want help in the > middle of typing a key sequence. True, but I think a message like that could be useful regardless of whether which-key is active (i.e., for `describe-prefix-bindings`).