From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Filipe Silva Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 17:37:55 -0200 Message-ID: References: <9B7513AE176AE5429921DB50D54FD2FC2C07843DEF@MAILBOX.GAM.LOCAL> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d720e48b63f05429df5dd X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480622110 8698 195.159.176.226 (1 Dec 2016 19:55:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 19:55:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: David Requena Zabala Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 01 20:55:06 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cCXRf-00017j-AU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2016 20:55:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58627 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCXRj-00011h-9D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2016 14:55:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52756) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCXB8-00055U-6c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2016 14:37:59 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCXB6-0008Mu-T1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2016 14:37:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yw0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c05::236]:34461) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCXB6-0008Mk-Nn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2016 14:37:56 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yw0-x236.google.com with SMTP id t125so203827811ywc.1 for ; Thu, 01 Dec 2016 11:37:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WhRhLIeQgU8FQZI/SeYTgSAp7rOQOLhtWQbakdbTYV4=; b=PgynTzE+FOUu599rJpUhnYeetM0ixQlxiZH2HrdprnGc5oc6JZO4YCXcvDpnPGn1xJ 6bsyO/xmzgSJoOJnyYiLCy/SzPWSxUqIgBiWIGaX0JpW0Pwuqjpz+BxYmikh86GOnN3b o2i/Xr4TzYoIlKz6BSmAL7hu34UhgnaMG2+n4x9bls/gUHknED3bvRCUV0qW5H8zbSrR X52L+SS73YxTWaZUOr5/dvyKM/k9qHrwf4ueN4iBSumsdJPy8el5olNdjcRdenOmEqi1 HdiycTYm0pmyX88dKQTqA2xEtEhHCZRajLsiTkEFiSvm46fcMB7LyinsamaMagjEwVTi OIpA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WhRhLIeQgU8FQZI/SeYTgSAp7rOQOLhtWQbakdbTYV4=; b=SfPri3xRdxYwJK2CrHRZZhDHBvz+dsDnjgH0eWvfzCGPLqL2Ri8nWDlGNVkShn2pyN J1IV8vqVOsP4fQBJgW6gTtxJD8iiqpsc9K8Epy4QHpBABkoSiSF/k7ac1PtXTfLvDUUH LRFaqPa2cmNEl6Z5mdpeszOXSPsuVwTb4vH7cEWWnYt/HVo0YSsNMOw8EpVI5vbiKHbk R8xRiWewoTDQl4V6oQpCU7SwVb2cwlCTC5CcREwXtlatmAjxfTO5AordBDE/OjO1AUWa C4Zz7c6H06sWT7x6Rn3C3VzFgyy4MR6Y05QLfNTv4GayGjXXl8Z3iGI2+B+QZr/OcsXC xQNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02AQSIPSp3ahKEKxiHEU9pnFBtWo55GAqq/QLKJWvlq8z4ZuHz494Hbi38ZHd47Uue8p+yrN/u8607FkA== X-Received: by 10.202.79.7 with SMTP id d7mr19294580oib.199.1480621076033; Thu, 01 Dec 2016 11:37:56 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.202.173.194 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 11:37:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9B7513AE176AE5429921DB50D54FD2FC2C07843DEF@MAILBOX.GAM.LOCAL> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c05::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209890 Archived-At: --001a113d720e48b63f05429df5dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Daniel here (both Daniels). There is no shortage of linux kernel hackers and=E2=80=8B it is written in C. Plus I think that is a cons= ensus that C is not dying anytime soon. Can't say the same for elisp. On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 4:50 PM, David Requena Zabala < DRequena@gamalquiler.com> wrote: > Paul Eggert wrote: > > > I sympathize with Daniel about the politics of this. This is not the > sort of change that we'd ordinarily create a new branch for, and the way > this is being handled will likely discourage further contributions. > > While I cannot really make an informed judgment merits of the portable > dumper versus the sometime-to-come fast one-big-elc-file, and won't touch > the branch vs master issue, I can tell you this: > > The only argument against portable dumper adoption I've seen amounts to > "it's coded in C", and the perceived (bad) consequences of the fact. > > Of course surely I'm not representative of the general programmer > population. Stil, as a once would be emacs C contributor, I sense a > definite avoid-anything-C-just-for-being-C atmosphere in the project. > > You might remember me from a few months ago, asking about non-toolkit > scrollbars on win32 emacs. > At that point: > > - I was willing to learn about learning enough about emacs core and win32 > to get those scrollbars. > - I was willing to incorporate any requested changes to better integrate > into emacs code base, coding style guidelines, whatever... > - I was willing to go through the burden of the copyright attribution > process. > - I wasn't willing to argue ad nausea about the merits of yet another > feature implemented in C. > > So these scrollbars never left my own private emacs build. In the process > I never took the chance of leveraging my newly acquired knowledge and > become a more regular emacs contributor. > > One might wonder to which degree the current C hacker scarcity in the > project could actually be caused by the very attitude the Project > management holds against C features. > --001a113d720e48b63f05429df5dd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree with Daniel h= ere (both Daniels). There is no shortage of linux kernel hackers and=E2=80= =8B it is written in C. Plus I think that is a consensus that C is not dyin= g anytime soon.=C2=A0

Can't say the = same for elisp.

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 4:50 PM, David Requena Zab= ala <DRequena@gamalquiler.com> wrote:
Paul Eggert wrote:

> I sympathize with Daniel about the politics of this. This is not the s= ort of change that we'd ordinarily create a new branch for, and the way= this is being handled will likely discourage further contributions.

While I cannot really make an informed judgment merits of the portable dump= er versus the sometime-to-come fast one-big-elc-file, and won't touch t= he branch vs master issue,=C2=A0 I can tell you this:

The only argument against portable dumper adoption I've seen amounts to= "it's coded in C", and the perceived (bad) consequences of t= he fact.

Of course surely I'm not representative of the general programmer popul= ation. Stil, as a once would be emacs C contributor, I sense a definite avo= id-anything-C-just-for-being-C atmosphere in the project.

You might remember me from a few months ago, asking about non-toolkit scrol= lbars on win32 emacs.
At that point:

- I was willing to learn about learning enough about emacs core and win32 t= o get those scrollbars.
- I was willing to incorporate any requested changes to better integrate in= to emacs code base, coding style guidelines, whatever...
- I was willing to go through the burden of the copyright attribution proce= ss.
- I wasn't willing to argue ad nausea about the merits of yet another f= eature implemented in C.

So these scrollbars never left my own private emacs build. In the process I= never took the chance of leveraging my newly acquired knowledge and become= a more regular emacs contributor.

One might wonder to which degree the current C hacker scarcity in the proje= ct could actually be caused by the very attitude the Project management hol= ds against C features.


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