From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:36:09 +0200 Message-ID: References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87imhw431x.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="2126"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs developers To: =?UTF-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien_Gendre?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 20 02:36:58 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQKQk-0000SI-53 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:36:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55696 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQKQj-0006Sj-7r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:36:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54450 helo=eggs1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQKQB-00062Z-JS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:36:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs1p.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQKQ9-0005qL-RF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:36:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-f169.google.com ([209.85.219.169]:43783) by eggs1p.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQKQ9-0005nF-AY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:36:21 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-f169.google.com with SMTP id o198so2211751ybg.10 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:36:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AGysrkeVeQAk4Wd1VVzcYWUtkCwjk5ZeQl958hbVUh4=; b=IIvbD4QOzbX1qoWBEqoBBLnsyzvQmnpsdVMcWaOzoxTcLHW8ByFdqz2s+r3Emb5ymy i9fmnYo4t9aZupDpujl//XLteCKCpHiXEH58IStu6INDuWpjUBYF5JHzZDCzoaIG6FkX /rteEF1d0P8ex+X13+w+baBqQ7r5X2/5M8BNpcRHzttLMZQHng0L+kaSKq0EdjKZBjMH fLkKUE5Yr4THU5FlmmHFQorKD6Tkg6FKqauGW7eestC6sl2IhZb4q1KLkf39+XPmE4i8 oR4CJ6+UkOhzugO2WkK5HIeWNHjxg1+LYCIbjSxuswlTboipiBnIkKzYEoXcFWo2RrfK oCMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuY0mHbK59/dmnWQjtj/EpxweIC25fum4q/9mSrEacMUjgCr/fcN 0r0zc0HzoJx5LojLcvnG8movnsMgWlTChbmawooXfHuSbMg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLATiAwGstFGgtJzXr5FwnjzNEd5rWvU9mp8m/tUNbCP7UXTyfCPBD9aLxK6xSFl2PU2OzHzWGzY47Cl4JDCvQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:fc08:: with SMTP id v8mr14712598ybd.389.1587342980884; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:36:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.219.169; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-f169.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs1p.gnu.org: Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.219.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247348 Archived-At: S=C3=A9bastien Gendre writes: > For these 4 use-cases, we can simply provide 2 flavors of Emacs: > - Emacs: With all the 2020 features, a modern interface, all needed > modern features to start coding with most popular languages and easy > to use for basic usages > - Emacs Vanilla: All the new features are still there, but deactivate > to not break anything I'm personally not against the idea of having a separate backwards compatibility mode. But I guess we would need to pull in several third-party packages to have a modern "batteries included" Emacs. AFAIK, that is unfortunately not possible given the copyright assignment requirement. But perhaps a default "modern" mode could be a bit less ambitious. Best regards, Stefan Kangas