From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 19:32:03 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8wXYP4GY9hwW-9mYv6_LGMETZ8Vz3Ob1Bec6yh6kPT7yxjTkxA3V6dXY4ELra9tYiJUxJmgXKSIEX4w8HFiPRoeGVSQHDSoBVy1voj1e3Qo=@protonmail.com> <83y2qwdmnd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="79443"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, ndame@protonmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 14 04:32:52 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ3g3-000KYB-D1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 04:32:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33416 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ3g2-0005Vu-Dz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 22:32:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42688) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ3fL-0004yj-G3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 22:32:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-f182.google.com ([209.85.219.182]:41643) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ3fK-0004GK-FE; Wed, 13 May 2020 22:32:07 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-f182.google.com with SMTP id x18so760937ybq.8; Wed, 13 May 2020 19:32:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IytngwJrM4SoJ5Dwxuf59k0XSASrX2MBDrUoZU+OEDo=; b=G5sisTgLhuQf1On6xNRr6xdeEWlFm+12vwvAbFcKOT3GaAucFkEOTpsMqzZBilyh7U 9G+XEAR88H9RO4cLlwddoU4zd+pl1EaM/JteL4p7upPxmzmx0Gx7daz1XEyX5+3PFzWk PvWozh2MqfwpzFcXQPlOUiiAQ6qBaEOsnYRUxKLJ2zLu2vDKYezTGWcECYuNw1K3Usgl DfjQEVr/MgOh0CqZCAZaN2GleNiNwLhrng0rMW6C35h0X3Py7bCwZ1xQqVt3+mdzVDzV mkx3xZDNzC0Yv598/wWQVzXhbEJXQrJtjX02+edUiUM7OV0ncE4hMlp/B5viEq+bVmHX xMuA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533oe81dGs2kTiTbM7k+kjwSOVRijd/zaesgbJTp5M3pakLLyVRP ygkmo7hmLgplQrti/NG14A4pCJCKLjs1MlLawHxdPA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9F1yc6Xc+8M9Ct03w9wwYJzQ+ClMpGKM3MKtiCJzT7t85bwXVjBTOsn3qBqj6olvmKR8845k615Hm3NjdPXk= X-Received: by 2002:a25:4c04:: with SMTP id z4mr3533181yba.466.1589423524316; Wed, 13 May 2020 19:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 13 May 2020 19:32:03 -0700 In-Reply-To: <83y2qwdmnd.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.219.182; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-f182.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/13 22:32:04 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250181 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > IMO, we should first get our > act together and decide whether these features are important, and then > speak up according to those decisions when we see advice to the > contrary. FWIW, I wrote up a bug report to the `better-defaults' package asking to please keep them enabled: https://github.com/technomancy/better-defaults/issues/37 I believe this blanket advice to disable the menu and tool bar should be similarly discouraged whenever and wherever we can. (EmacsWiki could be a good place to start, and maybe some of the other "starter packs".) Best regards, Stefan Kangas