From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?RE=3A_=5BExternal=5D_=3A_Re=3A_character_sets_as_they_relate_t?= =?UTF-8?Q?o_=E2=80=9CRaw=E2=80=9D_string_literals_for_elisp?= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 15:13:36 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4209edd83cfee7c84b2d75ebfcd38784fa21b23c.camel@crossproduct.net> <87v92ft9z6.fsf@db48x.net> <87o885tyle.fsf@db48x.net> <83k0it6lu5.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0isu7hz.fsf_-_@db48x.net> <87a6jotszy.fsf@db48x.net> <877der8smr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4168"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Daniel Brooks , Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: Drew Adams , Juri Linkov , Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 05 21:14:33 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mXptY-0000wh-JG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 21:14:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46926 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXptX-00061k-G0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 15:14:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38192) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXpsl-0005LT-Sn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 15:13:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]:36659) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXpsg-0002js-Sp; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 15:13:43 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id m26so379779pff.3; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 12:13:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=t5Ur+MRGi3Axr9WscofpbN5JRrs/cgrQOTezL9YoRt4=; b=a3qKtSyayVT1kwg14q1AKezWaJXlfyi+laOOIr295mQCycHANRkBgd0e2JLKYIIji9 xgsLlg9NGN4CjowuTXgXoyGaabzjHOhvdDQgKeXdrPZtSbhViC59S7Ln6MoSQYlwCz+1 ni7dRaeks79tMR5kxYLIVDT2ogSv/JAxwuU98TRI3pOzG0UWM/76DwhJYuxEakmS6xX7 yqd3heGsJLIUD8lE7J7+rFJR8VEO1/8PzQtcRY2+H3AE9Zl4Xk9EOWN+EQPQFoShZwlB ppEjoZZiq4jRqXuSRRHhUGnzzPuyOA1600y/cTkgnP9HV1QVR5pPCO9M9+90Jza8X9Dn 4GKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=t5Ur+MRGi3Axr9WscofpbN5JRrs/cgrQOTezL9YoRt4=; b=iEoX3R3q0Ku8WyExWtIAWmSrATqMbub45PnJ1lH/Oci9Ic7K42whavVPMGg3IgDwqZ QLx7p3KzdDMtykkC+pSllKTt/ksvNOpItgUIPLyBIl7JK0eDNzaBfXAGi6SgSoWtGN6X Tc79Nsxe3XoCOjxBz4LPLreMg/YNXQtTs/v9QUsKLLgaMSDZRQMQQE1phAjkO7tI43Fz F0bzF88gC56w1JKDlCfs/Y7V1XvLaeVP9qTn/1ldX4u5QapxL/WHF281UKM0bY+ju6MF yFcfCElAuvvoZSTB5s8lDfKYZGYtP1/MqYxtIb73kmY8HhPLqFiK/Le6N3kFPeVvr3YK zHng== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531GSfI5embo87t1hJe5aaX0dXvUt0E/er5QWXI1MCPnX55BG+F9 H2nojUGByoEQ5y79lD4sVFIUoiEQBGhrD6n+b+s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwqIJ3b7dpEzdrLAie26xoPQK8pkIyjVq1N8faO6Y4kWLhltMF9oBImQ9MPS+nn0uqFvwF9hpLmKcmWJb2u0Rc= X-Received: by 2002:a63:6941:: with SMTP id e62mr16997028pgc.114.1633461217089; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 12:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 5 Oct 2021 15:13:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x42f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276374 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> Such ugly writing style where an en dash is not separated from the >> nearby words by whitespace makes the Info manual less readable. >> For example, in (info "(emacs) After a Crash"): >> >> ...to retrieve them from a core dump=E2=80=93provided that a... >> >> This leaves one to wonder what does this word mean: >> "dump-provided"? > > Good example. > > Use of an en dash that way is inappropriate (irregular, > not conventional). An em dash _would_ be appropriate > there, but not an en dash. First, that just looks like a typo, there should be an em dash (=E2=80=94) = above as Drew says. IOW, you need to use "---" to get the correct symbol. See (info "(texinfo) Conventions"). (The em dash is correctly used in other places in trouble.texi.) "...to retrieve them from a core dump=E2=80=94provided that a..." That makes it a little bit better. In print, an em dash will look okay without any spaces, as it will be longer (in any serious typeface). Having no spaces is the more traditional style, while most newspapers, for example, put spaces around em dash for clarity and ease of reading. Still, if you are not a native English speaker it does take some getting used to this style. But it is correct; white-space is *not* needed. That said, I agree that with monospace fonts the em dash would really need to have some white-space on each side. I don't know why Texinfo doesn't insert a space for info files. It probably should. BTW, try this: visit "(emacs) After a Crash" and then M-x variable-pitch-mode RET.