From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Consistent vanilla Emacs Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 07:20:06 -0700 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="26868"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: "Nicolas P. 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That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250246 Archived-At: Hi Nicolas, "Nicolas P. Rougier" writes: > I've been working on making vanilla Emacs (i.e. no packages installed) more > consistent and elegant in terms of faces/colors/fonts/size. You can see some > screenshots at https://github.com/rougier/elegant-emacs. Thank you for working on this. As I've already told you in private, I like some of the fundamental ideas in your proposal, and think it has a fresh look we could definitely use in GNU Emacs itself. Of course, there are some details we need to work out, technically and in terms of what information to present to the user.[1] RMS has said we need to include copying and warranty information on the splash screen, for example. There are also considerations of aesthatics and consistency. For background, there is a thread on a better splash screen here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-04/msg01733.html > These mockups have been made using org-mode. Probably this can be made > differently and more efficiently but I'm not too familiar with Emacs internal. I think making a prototype in Org-mode is not a bad idea. But we can't load Org-mode by default, because it is too big and would increase startup times. So eventually we will need to write patches for Emacs which produce the desired results. I will try to find the time to study your proposal more fully in the next couple of days. Here are some initial observations from the screenshots: 1. Currently, the consensus seems to be that the menu and tool bar are important to have. So we can't disable them by default. We would like to make them look better though, but I don't know if there is any work being done on that. 2. You seem to have moved the mode-line to the top. I don't have an opinion of that yet. 3. We currently don't ship any fonts with GNU Emacs. Maybe we should consider doing that? It seems to me that many other applications do. Or maybe we should introduce a stronger set of default fonts for different systems. 4. I like the margins you set on the windows. But it is less efficient than not using them, because you can see less text on your screen. That makes me doubt that it's a good choice functionally, even if it is aesthetically pleasing. Is there an option to enable this only for certain buffers? (BTW, your `elegant.el' includes things like setting `indent-tabs-mode' to nil. Could you please separate those parts from the graphical changes? For example by moving them to a separate file. That will facilitate this discussion, I think.) Best regards, Stefan Kangas Footnotes: [1] Nicolas has agreed to sign the copyright assignment papers, and has been sent the form to get the process started.