From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Installing cond* in core Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:26:17 -0800 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31594"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 28 01:27:01 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rTt0m-0007uf-V6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 01:27:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTt0M-0000Zv-34; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 19:26:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTt0J-0000Zm-8A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 19:26:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52c]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTt07-00054r-Dz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 19:26:21 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55790581457so1402777a12.3 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:26:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706401577; x=1707006377; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cb0qvuEAqayFdVJ+I514zKdr5ByrggzVoaWybavA0Bs=; b=K+BdWE/ZH/F719kZIaeS+Hi818UlrZpXv/UFssI1IO9HOud3GvSuGInmlOemuU8dQo TgIPurq9D8hKGM1tMEDKSzmc1Ja7QlnEYUPBEqqrtSW6ed7gJnUqZqnUjsrrc8tXYaBv V/Kc2qU/bWd2WxqyPlOCSzVpLfuRSo8ZQu6i6ojgwZhwRyPIbVDHIewmC4SR2rhQstCv Tzdvjm9t++1y13aRKEN3gl4gCuY/2tOjVoud1u5IcE7XDKpKCcnx8wFnU39+xl9uShJy VQFti17HNyZ+QgYUqdjlUmb6U4dqpbkkysGIfnWlJA9G3+BIvyAvV2DcIohVjvFulOGc lcHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706401577; x=1707006377; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cb0qvuEAqayFdVJ+I514zKdr5ByrggzVoaWybavA0Bs=; b=HvCQaSK1d0TuJ2LWBUA9sAozFr0cBWtjftTRTbpZZ7Z42L4l1OHIV9jN47DNIr/w6x uyONNndEDL+WyUgMr9iKZ3JALlNK0r926+XFojSIVG0MeeB/RCYiX95E6vxYq12COtrD jErYhj1xbIG3mn6tJSno3btWC0qtmnjKC+2ilF371rfZ/sV+Fh4gn5wz2rPAT1mZyYTx LMHBJMO8tk0oxTZ2r0lbeT4HHiI3IOCw+zBLpK+Qah8g1dzxrDgA9v+iQv/Kw4EzZS0t QlHj93NXb/SF+pk+N3675ZdChIrr0ims9xjCgcrcRImP2x4hFNV+aG9tCILlMVjU6F6z 4gJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yypx2hmPSsf6SX0OvyHLMxyWfDdBEcCbVFCdowpB7sT5dWWCuIw fqzNP5Yqx/LpHgTrAQgoyW+RSKxRMJMN9dnsnUbSmtePh/b3pElrYz4VOz+zmzAYN0GogU6H9ih EC4hn8zpo4TuRkheFrq9V5WQRROk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFz9D7yZCvrQ5vHDkPxsyv1s7702qqjR+kzy6EpBRSzGH9DH2InWNSsYOINA5ewqVMJiI8oRQ5vWHNkDOtGi2Y= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:416:b0:55c:20f7:4ef8 with SMTP id q22-20020a056402041600b0055c20f74ef8mr1538481edv.23.1706401577585; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:26:17 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:26:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52c; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315506 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Can you further confirm that there will be no technical advantages given > to pcase over cond*? I see cond* as an alternative to pcase for those that prefer it. This is one consequence of deciding not to get rid of pcase. > In particular, that condstar.el will be in lisp/emacs-lisp, We didn't discuss that. I'd put it in lisp/, myself. > and that it will be available from early mid-bootstrap onwards, just > as pcase is? We didn't discuss that. It sounds like a separate change from adding cond* to core, and I'm not sure it makes sense to commit to it off-hand, without first understanding the details. In general, there is no point to loading something early unless it is used early. Do you have something more specific in mind? > On this point, it's worth noting that pcase was silently slipped into > Emacs in the dead of night without any public discussion, and was then > widely proliferated through working code, again without discussion. > That has relevance to "alienation", and goes some way towards explaining > my attitude towards cond* and pcase. I can't speak to that, as I wasn't around. I would propose that we start looking forward, and go back to working on the things that we enjoy and find interesting. That's likely to be more productive than discussing the details of how things happened or didn't happen 14 years ago.