From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 10:18:53 -0500 Message-ID: References: <838s7hxqkr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c2c69f9-f42e-45e2-ab0e-8506aa859f85@yandex.ru> <8335ven7tu.fsf@gnu.org> <6654ddbe-0f1b-f36e-26f2-f4ee178b12ac@yandex.ru> <83sg3elkdz.fsf@gnu.org> <283b4718-88eb-b63a-ce0b-316e4def4ff3@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3539"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 25 17:20:33 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lagYj-0000n6-82 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 17:20:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51926 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lagYi-0004Sx-8W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 11:20:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35088) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lagXA-0003q5-Q8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 11:18:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-f175.google.com ([209.85.215.175]:41868) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lagX9-0004lZ-Cf; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 11:18:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-f175.google.com with SMTP id f29so1331619pgm.8; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 08:18:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T6KH809vBwgKz4dNCnD2L2FJgw4+O723rLzPEvTjieQ=; b=bZCW6Uk+DIS90rLs4hPoErlR1BhxOjch3wK7YTJlA3UwKsXls+cMSwAE8bITJQV4fu i10ABHwaDb4ZlIu45VPlI088O8a7YM9a76DkoCH62q7wc9uTdwbea8i6mqocu66uMD+x NCidyDztXIeW/y/cEBEETnQhoefzb1HmOqFXwUQzom+EbDoKKrCODfydvqqQ7pe98G/Z YX7ZGhNqNiWBjXCWGH7MpTyg7FEf48aJRG/68GlQ/IA7pM8Cosxprr8W7nEfwAeWdTnG 2BBA8aaGj8ztprG4AMZfn26Fzz4u32+nbUxgN3oGrAELhS3GVCWNgWw/qrXHzF0HlAx4 5AvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531+3BPj7h5N02nD6EF3p2TBLuchi2JVEm1QV4inHozwM24WmLCS 77fenT8BFxCSyI2E/j3uEzsZ5W6H3kucBrQuzAg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwAvyJIO8b1HF+hoqs0xGf2GvrwRTVT+MesehMqUzh6ErkdJd1111RgZs9HcApKFnvHQX5RwHUJrWI/7RiBUFQ= X-Received: by 2002:a62:5bc1:0:b029:20d:69a5:189 with SMTP id p184-20020a625bc10000b029020d69a50189mr13371095pfb.57.1619363933783; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 08:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 10:18:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: <283b4718-88eb-b63a-ce0b-316e4def4ff3@yandex.ru> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.215.175; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-f175.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:268385 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: >> We could mention Backspace in the text there, or we could add >> PgUp/PgDn, for example > > Either/both would be an improvement. I think adding PageUp/PageDown and displaying that is the best idea here, so I have now done that on master. This change is orthogonal to which keys we actually show in help, but I propose suggesting these instead of SPC and DEL. But I am unsure how to do that. In the manual we have: =E2=80=98C-v=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98=E2=80=99 Scroll the display one screen forward, and move point onscreen if necessary (=E2=80=98scroll-up-command=E2=80=99). *Note Scrolling:= :. =E2=80=98M-v=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98=E2=80=99 Scroll one screen backward, and move point onscreen if necessary (=E2=80=98scroll-down-command=E2=80=99). *Note Scrolling::. So there are two symbols for PgUp/PgDn. If I type `C-h k' followed by my Page Down key, I see that it is called "" here. But the beginner-friendly name for that key would be "". So does that mean that the below diff correct? And is there a need to handle `PageDown' and `PageUp' in addition to `next' and `prior'? diff --git a/lisp/help-macro.el b/lisp/help-macro.el index 6a0e11574c..663b14d3d1 100644 --- a/lisp/help-macro.el +++ b/lisp/help-macro.el @@ -174,9 +174,9 @@ make-help-screen (point-max)) "" (concat ", or " - (help--key-description-fontified "\s") ; SPC + (help--key-description-fontified (kbd "")) " or " - (help--key-description-fontified "\d") ; DEL + (help--key-description-fontified (kbd "")) " to scroll")))) char (aref key 0))) diff --git a/lisp/help.el b/lisp/help.el index e143501081..8d6279de8f 100644 --- a/lisp/help.el +++ b/lisp/help.el @@ -232,9 +232,9 @@ 'help (purecopy "Type a help option: [abcCdefFgiIkKlLmnprstvw.] C-[cdefmnoptw] or ?") (concat "\(Type " - (help--key-description-fontified "\s") ; SPC + (help--key-description-fontified (kbd "")) " or " - (help--key-description-fontified "\d") ; DEL + (help--key-description-fontified (kbd "")) " to scroll, " (help--key-description-fontified "\C-s") " to search, or \\\\[help-quit] to exit.)"