From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 01:35:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f43123d7dee59461@heytings.org> <835y2xo1a5.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f4312391906f6101@heytings.org> <831qdlo084.fsf@gnu.org> <83msw8n43r.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34523"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: gregory@heytings.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 24 10:36:19 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCte-0008jN-Qt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 10:36:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCst-0000LU-1z; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:35:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCso-0000Ke-6X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:35:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCsm-00024S-9J; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:35:25 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-507a3b8b113so6278503e87.0; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 01:35:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698136522; x=1698741322; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KfOZjsMGhOXIGWetycyscMQOhv5RmK0Jkr2yaJYtMFk=; b=FmGkWmORUv/ji/bpgHr5teYGgvkK+2mx13AokzaQI4p5qjG8JKMX9BqhEwFusOOcCq vojDz0LGFHzcnJ4qDtqHIgHAt2OBVLbXPK7asy8MD/yxz/C0Su3EZTUOq/YzWlWcifcf wrcRXvtM6gjr3IXh+2j+y5wub1sRhk1V6Ucj9phhqErWTsj486zQN/NT8oB1yICmj/6l kQNgiELTV0MglXVHXfEt9NUy9CbG2AmcdYjhr1uBB8X8yXdPlcV7iBs8EjpoqeuAYOgT fcZqi+cv5eAzUSOJP/bvFIlo5dVDbmC0Bu1ySVNr4XaIDJ+HtcwxEOK94DhiTDBjMQ3n 8IeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698136522; x=1698741322; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KfOZjsMGhOXIGWetycyscMQOhv5RmK0Jkr2yaJYtMFk=; b=M82XwxXiWQyr0Qf3S9P4CF22N+nE7zszRkm01E5TwyQp97fJbx0MOJg64X+skJONtH 8bynukGWzqa4gFUXh1MNPWsJcUE/3J4lsUkCIjniKAJwPLs76QQq4FIimEnridPPgs/d sbwLKUrLBSpSfrm/4dMNtCY8WsbwtP3MHNCM0awFvpY8EVKBchsna0wGYd/3vV4igM82 s5BaGNiRHeMeTa/tDm0Ae8BkX4TcBpPZCGBWkAgyXbrzdtDlOeqBqhrez6YHHeOcOVKy NlLa3MkIlXM5ofXuV8iorpg+tu1TgCgaCRHTmuGPmZjU40F/Tfjn4MhgR4Nt1FjONLh2 ruEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx7hkrIgT1jKFFY/88hEqq9qyoWjVNOs9arygWfMvqvDijGak6c mYA5YYD+8CQHp20qm1l3HmIp7ax1VsMhEZFx4WRsR914aBA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGcJp65vNESl8XXijUByd/6EIVLffNOJupPHWhQ3l2gRpDGP/sKGlkz0WF7zgEIBnCYS2xeOedZADn4gd40D3Q= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b044:0:b0:2c0:1c32:b4e1 with SMTP id d4-20020a2eb044000000b002c01c32b4e1mr8184031ljl.27.1698136521581; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 01:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 01:35:21 -0700 In-Reply-To: <83msw8n43r.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::132; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x132.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311756 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Introduction of symbols that are not needed. Sure, but that's rather subjective. One could also argue that it is a good thing to have certain symbols available immediately, for example because they are typically needed. > Also, some packages modify the run-time environment when they load. Yeah, we do have some bugs in that department. :-(