From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stepping Back: A Wealth Of Completion systems Re: [ELPA] New package: vertico Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 06:37:08 -0500 Message-ID: References: <9c9af088-580f-9fb1-4d79-237a74ce605c@inventati.org> <874kgkxxs0.fsf@posteo.net> <78741fe6-2612-d7c9-2bc4-0b68ea7fa51a@yandex.ru> <76a4d0e2-117b-165d-d56e-5bc2f504b50c@yandex.ru> <87blapln0r.fsf@posteo.net> <37bd2e96-ce04-eb6d-24da-fdd7ea427e61@yandex.ru> <87im4wx2ct.fsf@posteo.net> <83ft0080hi.fsf@gnu.org> <16784f40-b959-9a84-65d4-93b71d1bebec@yandex.ru> <837dla7ghj.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf9q5r7k.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17877"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, dgutov@yandex.ru, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 11 13:38:02 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lVYPh-0004Xx-5Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 13:38:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45666 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVYPg-0003wf-7f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 07:38:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42516) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVYOv-0003Xg-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 07:37:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1033.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033]:41904) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVYOt-0000zF-Om; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 07:37:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1033.google.com with SMTP id z22-20020a17090a0156b029014d4056663fso5498185pje.0; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 04:37:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7E3qOPSTQmc4o97212u1g0dKs4hwXpw6s9/l25s7X1A=; b=oV3NyXsLeLbH8lzxa6/T4g3kkLk5dFBWViaN/kw8JCMBhHWh3ZVASo6Y3YZXSXmeuF 8EL94LNw1oemlaTVOYo7cMumT+Ny8qP6Z56dLdVzLZEun8z9Qa7NPdElyFXiJnCyAakC 8t6E+U0v1yIi1snAytv9nKRQnEGtyV+rueMoEjm/3iBKz1wiegoryjb4ITD4PedAuBtw xwjp7rFCeTa4ZI9CDCLaRpLbzPYt8m+Eoa3TLKeMsudm5UkLA7tqJQNnQWPeztjMCLlf UD65Wz5Lmf8U45N7fCiQp5i5KZDCC/knM4Gm5Xbn7Jvt668GXSN8Wo4OUe4MlcgQ9aYi n9KA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7E3qOPSTQmc4o97212u1g0dKs4hwXpw6s9/l25s7X1A=; b=LZNqU4U2kC5whNPzQs/DWOBUfUZV5+PuiNnl5gh3YOWHxJSZJgv8T13HXFLP3Q7Wnr PYyvMyaoqN8k1Aq9cY0agBj4R/14cqm7HGWus2kyO3CRf9q3o15l+u5z9Ofrf4N/enUh CbGac42qZ2q3xvlUvQSsoO94IC6IFQwYS2woZcBRhgUwsHfJquNHie198xpQsED4Rm61 JW3bZZT6aR3FCEnJwXQyH66WYm+NspreOhVBZ8icQFkZ6QFG/iOeMq/tIHXBco8oeaaS siQfn4JppgpAZfipbhqcA1oqlMzK6AXYIyEQWkZTVdhaC51fKfqdZEtXy3pcAbWgL+QN 84HQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530mLtO231SONxF0MN2GjeKlLCwHh+T0ZyFlfbYiofXRQdTwNkT/ Ke7NfARL4/gR3PCGQvsyvnb29/3M4p4PbyhXzO9mfRE/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz50oR0ISrfX8QLOvEJg3328oauXVsfpxvW978JRMhONN9wBr7N1r7NzAspbU31mw0AoYyNKjvVsQHCCyzwxnw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:2303:b029:e6:faf5:875e with SMTP id d3-20020a1709032303b02900e6faf5875emr21681502plh.41.1618141029182; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 04:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 06:37:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83lf9q5r7k.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1033.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267867 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > Right away, i.e. even without the user typing anything? that'd produce >> > a huge list of candidates, which would be impractical to display. >> This is what e.g. ivy does on M-x, and it works well in practice. >> >> I find it much better to display candidates this way, and I think it >> would be a step forward if Emacs dit this itself OOTB. > > For me, it would be a step back. I never use completion for > discovery, I always have a pretty good idea what I'm about to type > when I do. The fact that this UI paradigm is so ubiquitous suggests that you might be in the minority here. >> (It's also a popular choice elsewhere, try for example entering >> something into the search bar on Google or DuckDuckGo. The same >> paradigm you see there is used in a lot of desktop software.) > > Those are for selection, not for completion. I thought we'd already > established that the two are quite different. We should not conflate > them, nor force users use only one of them where both could make > sense, IMO. I don't think the distinction matters here. We are discussing if candidates should be shown eagerly, and my answer is "yes".