From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 10:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: References: <838s7hxqkr.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37847"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 07 17:19:25 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lU9xk-0009iV-4H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:19:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35114 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lU9xj-0004Nm-4o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:19:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59158) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lU9wr-0003Q0-EZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:18:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-f174.google.com ([209.85.215.174]:37767) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lU9wo-0006qi-4e; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:18:28 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-f174.google.com with SMTP id k8so13316839pgf.4; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 08:18:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=D/WZhOGS/+X+//CACzkKmi0KjBe/YsCWQksj8Sye4xw=; b=Z5/bc9crvfkx48EfDz80Yvdsb+cCkcLUHyhJFDwK3ugMfoHJt7QMDp1kTMBJwIk2BG IeH6dKjgeSsxQ4wc80CIpVjjcnETUn3RPJDh+FPpOC97FKSipLnL+UpYAp/s8u1m+fqM HNFlJkUgWZBknbxbANsiGMp1BJR7S+irc5A+PG1FPaCJiAmON1WX9qVymgz4+AFF+3rq xdMP0lKvqz/h9H3ynFzmfpApZ1ksuEkpCGKZWfg7MpleMCLNOg/GgmMmjINU38UEfHGS 7opLjqOVzkpztbhLmMOn0XuU7NBcYXLpefIPY1OI95M3zBb19AOksfs9C9Uu66qo8+d9 jHhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531JaAh4Eh4/j/z5Pps0ealNmTaABYv6Zn5ZNcqk7HogZJL+AFRw d1ulrUj9p3gfUjJsUhK010X0BtctwHzWcCATNUkXp8wJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy/BrRNuE9/9iWRvnZtU0uaqoMuMjMK0302wkNW8Bf+k7q+n26qNpp+jdNNGSam7jd+Voyfe9zOoEibbuH5HQs= X-Received: by 2002:a65:4046:: with SMTP id h6mr3685939pgp.345.1617808704113; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 08:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 10:18:23 -0500 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.215.174; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-f174.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267525 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Stefan Kangas writes: > >> If the general direction here is okay, I will provide a full proposal, >> including thinking through the order. > > Please find attached an updated proposal. > > My overarching goal here has been to design this as an _overview_ of > _important_ and _non-obvious_ information. > > This is a summary of the changes: > > - Added sections. > > - Drastically shortened descriptions of the command. > > - Changed ordering to be roughly based on: order of importance, logical > grouping of related items, and the Emacs manual. > > - Removed the indication about which commands will show a prompt. > [Rationale: I find that information overly pedantic, messy and fully > redundant; it will either be obvious from context or, at the very > least, when invoking a given help command.] > > I'm not sure what is considered a large attachment these days, so I > posted a screenshot at some image host: > > https://i.imgur.com/Cv67yUN.png > > To facilitate the discussion, I have also pasted below the plain text of > the help buffer. The patch is attached below. There have been no further comments here within 4 weeks. I intend to finish this up and push this to master in the next couple of days. Please send any further comments soon, or we will have to consider them after this lands on master. Thanks in advance.