From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:50:29 -0600 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <874kknp1lq.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36236"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 25 16:51:47 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIvb-0009M5-O2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:51:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33296 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIva-0005ks-Q3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:51:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIuP-000590-I5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:50:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x431.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::431]:36734) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIuO-00072D-46 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:50:33 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x431.google.com with SMTP id z5so3887281pfe.3 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 07:50:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uNaFJwlLkUlcV69KVARKySESoOFkg8jG7yeNXzRkygk=; b=cHEhPxzcIR5TgtQcNYw2YdpHcbm2sDzl295sB0ZrB0HlwToQiuLHf+vMxDkq1FRpsZ 111c6nv9i89bEyQMcndkPOt+a1UYud5nRpwzRiL+k73GfkoODt4kia0P3yd92dax4zPf aikU/80c5tL3/8ADdODMG0QvC4D/lM4O1nCTCPHt/a+cSHhFb+ulXwQbb3i6TenKRGNw E7C/MScGm5+uTsZyqUWwG9yDH2ymF7Mn9EqtN1Q2un51RMvcYFrNj3451kW6MKHU/J+W frQHbBwnuyol/Dd9ZPGci3VoKLSKht06GudBnA1lU6r2JNPscJHB5szEk8y6I7kunZ6s Tyrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uNaFJwlLkUlcV69KVARKySESoOFkg8jG7yeNXzRkygk=; b=sTw/M3e00XMLze9UNoUR1XkiYWXAtxSZEWUNkCxrfTP8fON6bZyAcbcI8oAE5SL/yB wti2cpWPIQWgAw43oR3Z4LwOo4KsW3Il1SFKiyT1DIkcYhLNsmL33PzJuCZ4TqfVsJ5u xm2Gw1B7etE4b+ecFkxZMp1JSaVjnwpazCDikDG4VyMIPEUVSXHT/m9zNdyKHvQFkD/f pAYw2Lzc/8LXQGLKxHov7jnfKKYU/weC0fBNOxtraV4gBcdB0bM2v1tOFv0vfEN/u8aX Pa4HxuIHt5mvvCKc8IIUV42V9/WoeIl1rI3wYhSQ1Tw7ecF3ve+yDwBUEY+aeJz6vXQi ov2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531IcQiTG6oe0f6shs30GPkDbH0m0Fl+fYl8JlaRKytqhU/YF/o4 jRYn/jmu5YfPw/T3dXgTzH+W1/yJH8tKGWjoIx4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyrhEX4JZp2a+ggLd6lE8VZcD9Nl2DOQfIGh2yxPh8zefAVElGF19N/sZXgUwFXEPahQEAivsJbHCjJDWOSE7Y= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:90d3:0:b029:1ed:7eec:b031 with SMTP id k19-20020aa790d30000b02901ed7eecb031mr3781796pfk.58.1614268230625; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 07:50:30 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:50:30 -0600 In-Reply-To: <874kknp1lq.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::431; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x431.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265628 Archived-At: (I had a look at this recent megathread, as nothing actionable seems to have come out of it.) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Stefan Monnier writes: > >> For most major modes, it's hard to find a justification for a toolbar, >> and for some major modes, OTOH, it's a no-brainer (e.g. mpc.el). >> But I don't think we've done a good job of making use of the toolbar for >> the middle ground. > > True, there are modes where the toolbar may be useful, and a media > player might be one of them. And prev/next/reload in a browser may be > something people might use. How about introducing a new variable with the tentative name `this-mode-wants-toolbars' that defaults to nil? If it is nil, there are no toolbars. This variable can then be set to t when someone has made a toolbar that they know will be useful. That way, there is less need for users to disable the toolbar globally (unless you really want to), and they can benefit from this feature where it is actually in a useful state. One obvious drawback of this proposal is that it's slightly jarring when the toolbar appears and disappears when switching between windows. Perhaps we could show it if it is enabled in any buffer in a window on the current frame? > But there aren't a lot of these modes, and > you may as well put the buttons in the mode line, which is already > there, and which nobody much disables. I tend to agree. The above proposal would leave this to the mode author to decide. (Well, in reality, the overwhelming majority run with no toolbars anyway. So if you want your controls seen you should probably still put them in the mode line.)