From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs popular again with a video Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 08:12:14 -0700 Message-ID: References: <78MWNW3AMrdcuobWz5HUv_03eXHd_phmW_WI1FPDdF654vYB7PMs5hfkTzArXOZuIH0B-c2vXH9ny70NaA83aDaB8A47vfDkaI3imYzrXsI=@protonmail.com> <20200509132808.GA42734@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="20868"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs developers , ndame To: Alan Third Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 09 17:12:59 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXR9u-0005Gw-FG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 17:12:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50574 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXR9s-0005Oz-HW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 11:12:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38406) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXR9F-0004oJ-As for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 11:12:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb43.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b43]:43110) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXR9E-00075O-F4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 11:12:17 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb43.google.com with SMTP id x15so401068ybr.10 for ; Sat, 09 May 2020 08:12:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KlylLIJuPqYQJ4/Ofg0i6xWOHAYFDVuYyGV4i8cY1+g=; b=u8xiwdsTp9/vQMuHyQNcEcCgDEsHbin46Dk9eRA8Q8fTot0Yw2FupiMUfxF58t96sM KbW8RjYpP61LoqBP8mfeakqFqRytE+5y05C5pZSWBJ+CAtOuW24JFnL312/7N9kstcs6 1dUn7eBMX72hJeyiv2N+TAjbd3mtyo1OcA4I0Gson6XujBXJxSq0IhnvydJVHG9VlTfq mu5zspqZ0Lomu/3cPMk4L1DlxbLdWSaLtWGBt0/0qJe2b43r60tg/G/l59hf/miDNrpU gd39rRYP+wXEMmvWCpVEaqBRmE37lVZcpIB6P6KSxPtxPTPwnGGwldkiwd36/aWIss0W LCjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KlylLIJuPqYQJ4/Ofg0i6xWOHAYFDVuYyGV4i8cY1+g=; b=h8LQUre42qakNZxK4lRjiUQjSAgkTAeEIy2lvIALcxh1J29Igar9CpOrcILJ8xJtzf b2X6hO+0MYBlrPN9icNtoQmV1PT5aookY73YedkwkDU9n7OaWMBXZ4/Leq3ezK6kD+7C +1pESrLcUFHkt+Irf4jXjcaxyMr4DBjuKOQu7OivYAWX8rnaN12MARlfWjlBtJCmGnkk S/DC7SqTHd0pjcpq5j0J4p3RGdk7k+xMLPa+hdSo1fdOQugTOCA1R6hX2cAjmj7xwqcX +iYpNRbWl16HDmddh0O8e82w3nvnKf4CF1MYGXCCmulQqMD5X9xYwHqheKudL+z9DrFF eVew== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZn6K6nuiyx8Tlw+lDMhV5LpkllBlvj7slgTlsa+rWUr3xqln54 ejHGkxT059yGX2f/oMf6CrxrhfxPzA7NuoFGhvY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLtvcsGzWdfQ7j/8gH4hKD/5YFw4CSxy8mQ9LaXgcpcCcStlBXq7FopFOu0xLauURy9yG3QzN2YCJLT4SnAkX0= X-Received: by 2002:a25:4c04:: with SMTP id z4mr12969301yba.466.1589037135099; Sat, 09 May 2020 08:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 9 May 2020 08:12:14 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20200509132808.GA42734@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b43; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb43.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249459 Archived-At: Alan Third writes: >> IMHO, we should not promote third-party "init files" as a primary >> option, but rather improve Emacs itself. > > Maybe we should embrace them, and provide tools to build custom Emacs > distributions. Perhaps I was being unclear. What I don't like is the suggestion that we should just tell people to go to website X to download and install a bunch of init files. I think we could provide some _variant_ of what these distributions are doing, namely sets of ready-made customization. The question is how to go about it. I've been thinking a lot about this problem, but I have not had time to do any serious work. So please consider these ideas as tentative: I would propose to add a concept of "custom profiles" (or simply "profiles"), which are basically defthemes. Please see the separate (brief) discussion about this here, and also the related thread: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-04/msg02032.html One can imagine these "profiles" to be big distributions like spacemacs, or (perhaps better) small snippets or sets of customization. Some of these could/should be included in Emacs by default. One can also imagine there being one profile providing "good defaults for a new user".[1] Maybe such a profile could be the default at some point in the future, but this is IMHO better discussed and decided once it actually exists. Best regards, Stefan Kangas Footnotes: [1] Eli has pointed out that the biggest hurdle is to decide what such a "profile" (in my terminology) should include.