From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving kbd to subr.el Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:43:29 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20211004081724.6281.11798@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87mtnbtimj.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnmd13ny.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfx10xs6.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7dfpjn3.fsf@gnus.org> <31b2f1e94178d73e5f05@heytings.org> <87czo3pgs1.fsf@gnus.org> <31b2f1e9412d60db82df@heytings.org> <87o87moopl.fsf@gnus.org> <19fca5d18b63e6eff5de@heytings.org> <87wnmaiida.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgr6gw9s.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1chhhkh.fsf@gnus.org> <871r4hf83m.fsf@gnus.org> <27b660e5a87f359aec13@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35696"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 19 19:45:19 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mctAs-00096G-G4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 19:45:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40408 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mctAr-0001JX-9e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 13:45:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59868) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mct9E-0007kT-TX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 13:43:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-f44.google.com ([209.85.216.44]:34441) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mct9A-00007q-Bt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 13:43:33 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-f44.google.com with SMTP id q2-20020a17090a2e0200b001a0fd4efd49so2312722pjd.1 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:43:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iiicIjMbop1ARdHoO9bXLQkvROLaNgb0RsNN2X36rhY=; b=p1+XIRvPxYhdxDamtGAzKf3GsPaWutsb+AO/vZjd2k1aq5rrMTKQ/lYTnv3qqH9TPZ WdOCUZAM1jAV2WDvHg4qMxSlPTvvYH4euhFUJwH3wAVvf10he7s7k2IF29mluG7SB1Xv +WnYMVtRoAuo2SvvRZnhk21Up5o+4gdqF8PkE+T6lySUJpER8B9Wjj+e0PSzd+hZSOvd c91PBbr8e6CRm+GeRlVBoxsa1p1bT1mSIAcvcz/zi1a1mXpIYJIm8a9MmpclvSSpieW+ tygINHXsSJNvb0w4VyRlrSbWTBn0PbM/7vDU6sHu32aQvbdxoMvMB749JLxFhK03/4bD Ximw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Jpem1UsMLEhXvDDm3T0s2zKN0l9wmfRyYlEihAknP3XAdGd9C V7vGuFMMg0P8KK+FwuU1oNASQLF58331UUNqhOs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwJQBQQ3UOZNha6mQqX5xpgEuiYs6mSGVn1VOvytBl79NM+Ff+psB3sRIPchzZJp7PuI683061j2F3TIwk3nE4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:17d2:: with SMTP id me18mr1462572pjb.132.1634665410035; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:43:29 -0700 In-Reply-To: <27b660e5a87f359aec13@heytings.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.216.44; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-f44.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:277392 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings writes: > It's not only the number of functions that counts, it's the number of > times they are used. define-key only is used ~15000 times in core and > ELPA. That should give pause when thinking about changing its semantics, IMHO. Especially now that we seem to be converging on a better alternative. > As I already said earlier, that's unreasonable. It's clear that at some > point the old functions will be deprecated, I don't see us deprecating the old API any time soon. For now, I think that the carrot (a better/cleaner/etc. API) will do more for us than the stick (e.g. byte-compiler warnings). But that's me. > And I bow out of this thread, somehow I feel that my contributions are not > welcome anymore. I can only speak for myself, but your contributions here have been welcome. As long as we keep it civil and to the point, being met with a contrary view, even while disagreeing with some of the conclusions, can force you to sharpen and improve your own arguments and reasoning. Well-reasoned discussion in that way helps make Emacs better, which after all is the point of this list. So I hope that you will continue participating in the discussion and help us make the new API the best it can be, if that is indeed the solution that we will finally decide on.