From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs project mission (was Re: "If you're still seeing problems, please reopen." [ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:58:44 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20191117113054.49837.qmail@mail.muc.de> <87pnhq7mxg.fsf@gnus.org> <87bltaz9g4.fsf@telefonica.net> <834kz25qp9.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2wexsv1.fsf@telefonica.net> <20191118175639.08d02820@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <874kz0pa9y.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgmjyn60.fsf@gmx.de> <875zjelte0.fsf@gnus.org> <871ru2zubp.fsf@gmx.de> <87lfsakdxp.fsf@gnus.org> <87wobuydwz.fsf@gmx.de> <83v9rezf6d.fsf@gnu.org> <83h82yz6mu.fsf@gnu.org> <6938d5d2-0207-7d52-e60f-bbe5e591fd10@yandex.ru> <87sgmh4etq.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002c6720059806729b" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="173770"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= , Richard Stallman , Yuri Khan , perry@piermont.com, Michael Albinus , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , Emacs developers To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 23 18:00:02 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iYYlN-000j2X-Rf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 18:00:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59882 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iYYlM-0007nH-LB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:00:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34267) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iYYkS-0007lo-8h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 11:59:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iYYkQ-0001Yn-RG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 11:59:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-f68.google.com ([209.85.216.68]:41654) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iYYkL-0001X6-Q3; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 11:58:57 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-f68.google.com with SMTP id gc1so4531268pjb.8; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 08:58:57 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=T/Ln0S45cpxlRTE9Ue36Zmns6HEgioi8y0pHmN17G34=; b=Q1UZB82svWhGTbvbyNBfHzi2nHcoOWOamYxe00hystlEjBjhpZuZz6Ni1YAvojZkga SC20tVFRHIp1CUDtSJnXakQxTWKxKwgRsYSaRdiEeTncREWYoqdHea2BZh5rvI453gfa iHLXsTJ4xd22q/mSPocpxQWHc3vGU5u4zDUn7yjFhObm4lcXIc/u684h6XGKtOKvvTTj M8YkJ63Lt3jvAZTObApfbD3wICgqbyst7lUGditjiwafACzwJWWEEedI6nN1imVNFNWE LsOeORUNkt+i8sMOYB9AIGo34YK1/CSwpL+LkWTWmZaBr+yNwmTEUxbBGI1R8/Wrm1ig HiIA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVrYo2/xdc8MQWe6KDpGMQn8n7xthCtILzIGgZ50Y+i/AODZOVM DlN2A3VNTAkJlJucbaKqeMxkeOxdpB260ubSTac= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxxB5KrwGXXQUVt5uutWmVAxyAaNBS8ralbey5w1kM73yoGVMlH0jxr9ZpbNiAObctKq6U+PNkANqUoSSibrTg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d152:: with SMTP id t18mr26925058pjw.119.1574528336289; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 08:58:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87sgmh4etq.fsf@gnus.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.216.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242652 Archived-At: --0000000000002c6720059806729b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > The latter, yes. But I'm more hopeful about this solution. What are we > > worried about? > > > > That when we write to old bugs again, the submitter won't receive the > > comments? > > Yes. As someone who goes spelunking into bug reports, it would be a > major problem if questions I have about the reported bugs do not reach > the person who reported the bug. Having done a bit of bug triaging lately, I wanted to jump in and say that I fully agree with this. In many cases, we have no one but the original reporter to provide us with the information we need to make any progress. Making it harder to quickly ask the reporter for more information would risk slowing down bug triaging significantly, at least in my use cases. > And requesting somebody to register as a user on Gitlab seven years > after reporting an Emacs bug "just in case" somebody might actually take > a look at their bug report sounds horribly rude to me. I think it's unrealistic to expect that we would get very good results with asking people to register. We can often count ourselves lucky if the reporter even replies back to our e-mails. As Eli ponted out we have had some excellent response using email, but we don't know how that would be affected if we demanded that someone logged in. IMO, we need Gitlab to handle email well and transparently. Best regards, Stefan Kangas --0000000000002c6720059806729b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>= writes:

> > The latter, yes. But I'm more hopeful about this solution. Wh= at are we
> > worried about?
> >
> > That when we write to old bugs again, the submitter won't rec= eive the
> > comments?
>
> Yes.=C2=A0 As someone who goes spelunking into bug reports, it would b= e a
> major problem if questions I have about the reported bugs do not reach=
> the person who reported the bug.

Having done a bit of bug triaging lately, I wanted to jump in and say that = I fully agree with this.=C2=A0 In many cases, we have no one but the origin= al reporter to provide us with the information we need to make any progress= .=C2=A0 Making it harder to quickly ask the reporter for more information w= ould risk slowing down bug triaging significantly, at least in my use cases= .

> And requesting somebody to register as a user on Gitlab seven years > after reporting an Emacs bug "just in case" somebody might a= ctually take
> a look at their bug report sounds horribly rude to me.

I think it's unrealistic to expect that we would get very good results = with asking people to register.=C2=A0 We can often count ourselves lucky if= the reporter even replies back to our e-mails.=C2=A0 As Eli ponted out we = have had some excellent response using email, but we don't know how tha= t would be affected if we demanded that someone logged in.=C2=A0 IMO, we ne= ed Gitlab to handle email well and transparently.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
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