From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: "Write a new package" culture instead of patches? Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 11:52:18 -0700 Message-ID: References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <405FCFAB-30E4-4F98-81DA-3B09933E86D0@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="16671"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, ams@gnu.org, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, pcr910303@icloud.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 17 20:53:08 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaOPM-0004F4-39 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 20:53:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56278 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaOPL-00005f-65 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:53:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43978) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaOOb-0007sN-Um for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:52:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c]:36092) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaOOb-0002Rz-2j; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:52:21 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com with SMTP id a10so4143760ybc.3; Sun, 17 May 2020 11:52:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=U5/hqn+bp5hVc6pYjSGgeCE4m7juqjIREPm6EcsTLVY=; b=aIRal2LUTrcloPTdpW2euyxsKgphqbpdpHw/z9iW3LjjRV8T0Smucu6aCk+XAL+91T HRYI3ddMbOK3nLnKphQ2gz8PLHFcEfa22agBi6Gr3a+I01aPR1naiCKSGv+WxJJgVIfv PXE2CwuZjBmxtQeYs/gWWN2rJ15XJJCXayYVo/CU1WMrDBxyTwPiQaToApVjRIDz92mw fmNerUkp4e6slvY/d7kuHmDZfP2ocakl2VrYVTIXmgzk0c7br5MnrDmvhWqtXAc62/JO DzNHimHP4I0FX9FGqWQ8jpUC/LMQl1uNVGCVWEQ2JlWjbvL3savC/z4aNCkG9JVoyURl 1fZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=U5/hqn+bp5hVc6pYjSGgeCE4m7juqjIREPm6EcsTLVY=; b=CDLAbprM5SrnuNExuz6Pvshp0hukdhmfWltHTkne4V7ojVrQwM/9IVoGnaBAFP5UsR 0FPtHCS7IxhVcgeLqe8vUKsMNTTe0ZaYGk8ZCW+UcEp+LDoJl58dquSoq+yut10/NTto a0pRtdGS5TTWhBJfcT3qzolNTEPk8sVJp5Ed7nFphna8HJeNbqEpJ/xEzUaW8CNAPMJ8 /Q5FxsPsc8rkb47sfxXUywkgKGnyBquhfdIgxhZp0w1vrk+q/z4nvwue6aqPjzx8gBKo yZfufArHtvAW/iVdGXRx07CWK6AA907T1veOr48g/X563Myn9kY1jfznxvEZJkNKo3hO Z0CQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532h1Hx2S+cVEJNZ+zMxXlug78FpLWI2QWlp0W0Getwf98SxejUZ sSL2tQMIJ+iNgBH6tBnUDCGJe6TbAOvSze7vGLM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy3gSoHH5f+FSFROn3efk12OMn7MFVVzV8xfooGyjlGVfd8hyT+EPdUXX1Z8uU8+mxISAO6zt1MokgJBBHwXME= X-Received: by 2002:a25:9304:: with SMTP id f4mr8858553ybo.309.1589741538830; Sun, 17 May 2020 11:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 17 May 2020 11:52:18 -0700 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250647 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > Another example is elegant-emacs, suggested in yet another thread by > Nicolas P. Rougier. There's nothing stopping us from featuring it in GNU > ELPA (right?), but we would get the most value if we really examine it > and look for pieces to put into the vanilla Emacs by default. Yes, this is the correct approach in many cases. This reminds me of something else: There's a general problem that when package lacks small feature , some users don't see this as a chance to write a patch for . Instead, they write a new library - to add this feature. Sometimes, of course, this is the correct choice. But I've seen some very small packages just to basically patch this or that annoyance in a package, or in core. For example: https://github.com/Fuco1/eshell-bookmark/issues/1 (FWIW, I think we should have a policy to reject such packages on technical grounds (and ideally MELPA would do the same).) Now, this is an extreme example, but many more could be found. Why are the authors of "helpful.el" not helping us mainline some of their great innovation, for example? Has anyone else thought about this? Is it correct to say that such a "package first" culture has developed? If yes, why has it developed, and is there anything we could do about it? Best regards, Stefan Kangas