From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stepping Back: A Wealth Of Completion systems Re: [ELPA] New package: vertico Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 07:58:51 -0500 Message-ID: References: <9c9af088-580f-9fb1-4d79-237a74ce605c@inventati.org> <874kgkxxs0.fsf@posteo.net> <78741fe6-2612-d7c9-2bc4-0b68ea7fa51a@yandex.ru> <76a4d0e2-117b-165d-d56e-5bc2f504b50c@yandex.ru> <87blapln0r.fsf@posteo.net> <37bd2e96-ce04-eb6d-24da-fdd7ea427e61@yandex.ru> <87im4wx2ct.fsf@posteo.net> <83ft0080hi.fsf@gnu.org> <16784f40-b959-9a84-65d4-93b71d1bebec@yandex.ru> <837dla7ghj.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf9q5r7k.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnt957rc.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2786"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , dgutov@yandex.ru, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 11 14:59:31 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lVZgY-0000cg-4N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:59:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36706 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVZgX-00087j-6u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 08:59:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVZfz-0007hY-Kl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 08:58:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x62f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62f]:43641) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVZfx-0003sT-T5; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 08:58:55 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id v8so4909434plz.10; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 05:58:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tvzyiahaqHJ35gMxGaUPLjrVIjOY9UmNqTrQWD+MZCM=; b=c+c4ktIO6osWSKwOJbmGEXwE/9Q/BGEFtvREBhREZsnk0lnqYNy6Sx7qffkRClmkcA sitONAK7PdqJcYkt02QWHgwYUDfwpoObq5MfYSe3v0ov3U7GpCRjujaB5ebWodSAL0JG p3jpz1muNGpQkPS5KmhiwaEcQE4KfTA1oHq8NXvovb6oQcBH0RKJe9lu0wuurMz5z8U7 186/VHCG/q9i/KPcZB7a+c0AG7Sd7+LPi5VhQQvTztmGQyxrrNNnqeHAPVZJJir2d2rH lX6JfL4lD6xU7XaCHTMmgOIV4ZaMN8L+EZ4vGUzzEBFwC4+ZcAG0E31dOnC7Uw6+psDg tbAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tvzyiahaqHJ35gMxGaUPLjrVIjOY9UmNqTrQWD+MZCM=; b=BNsR61Ke2+sYNM7FFl54Yop7cBgiLSoGAG20vsFZLoRAeDjMn8vKyyYJ3TiYlHGALT jsgdJKGqUOHGNGE3TzfHejz9XI8OvR2/4wcpGwNRg5/qlaec/D5WA7quI6y2lZyDHzN5 wvW+Jf0SGmRY63/7fF0eFSX8qS0uftyoXbh3dccCWXQidvxAaEvenbDahG2CYfcf6l/1 LzaDrd/dsAqNqfobxjo9WcbclS6tkFx/Dt1z/Tu/Wu4hIbbxEwWSB9xiq6jS7YevYZcS m8ycTUbxYOvIrKctWC64PfSFW3LAofi4faMotRZy3luwN5CuKXKl/JKZIXR6xmET/lt0 eWtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530D6HgwOAMKX+TqhtMfwDXa7WiGzxz1Ra6IgcokbMD8sr2WnWzj MJdb7GTJBbZSFHTRNmoNcmik8V6Bt2wQ3Q+4SnE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx4+kSrgsxq10LiuqRWIfECh9CoaZ292r8WlArRi4byDDjm+Odh0Bk7SuIHRDot3vSfm1VE3Q3NLURmswqiGLE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:19ca:: with SMTP id nm10mr2640974pjb.175.1618145932156; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 05:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 07:58:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87wnt957rc.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62f; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267870 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: >> The fact that this UI paradigm is so ubiquitous suggests that you might >> be in the minority here. > > I don't think that that should delegitimize the preference though. Sure. It should tell us something about which is the better default, though. >>>> (It's also a popular choice elsewhere, try for example entering >>>> something into the search bar on Google or DuckDuckGo. The same >>>> paradigm you see there is used in a lot of desktop software.) >>> >>> Those are for selection, not for completion. I thought we'd already >>> established that the two are quite different. We should not conflate >>> them, nor force users use only one of them where both could make >>> sense, IMO. >> >> I don't think the distinction matters here. We are discussing if >> candidates should be shown eagerly, and my answer is "yes". > > Are you using an alternative completion framework? I find it interesting > how some people agree with the distinction and others don't, and wonder > if the way they use Emacs shapes their opinion. I use ivy, and previously I've used ido for many years. They both show candidates immediately, without having to press TAB. As does most other completion frameworks, AFAICT: helm, icomplete, smex, selectrum, etc.