From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: On obsoleting defcustoms Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 06:01:14 -0700 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17163"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 18 15:08:14 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJG7Y-0004K8-MW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 15:08:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35408 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJG7X-0004Qj-JF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 09:08:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJG0t-00084z-Lr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 09:01:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-f45.google.com ([209.85.208.45]:44833) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJG0r-0007PF-U9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 09:01:19 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-f45.google.com with SMTP id b12so5943462edz.11 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 06:01:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=eUwQaX3hTCzXumI08Wel/x04UoVrDUb0u7+spV+qf8s=; b=rwNp6hLVqk/6NYhaU06xW3/RtmH/uLge6IzQjzHTbu1YA49rBdU4/w/CrSXcwJl6cG jgSKk2N9Bw4bUbkNLSVl4tDBdpm66d4e9P5CZtp2rM8OCSau8hOW+1mM9JOR7PXEAREo 4dvuLUzuopbadTBTLJJ2h/KJchVPDWAJZJrFrf1Io+FQZkmVjIRdkHH6K6/f/ZoDF8+C VIyMqN/su3LkkEMuvtCRHBXZ4Dq4eZ8RsChQPIFnURHIlJrHj/6+MPSTzzrCQQW1cugt 6EFTiKbX/OFtdkrE3sRhAR/gfdL4OZDsM6JoS5azv4iE722OTAuDBs8VpWiBw6JFnbxi qYsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Yp55XqHaXN4gH4c6Rqtxvbv9HNnqAl1xKtEcpwzEk3aV2lcPI PBw4BlSBDaqwqadtP2XP80g7Z2sR7RHDQAOgCcWUJQvv X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyZsTKssN5/z1M0ZU7fLIbm/Pbf/wPHqQbg2UWBrQFbbraPNwtVXAD474zb7ENMeOVewnJSb3rNGatklNagbLE= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:cad3:: with SMTP id l19mr36756341edt.352.1600434075516; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 06:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 06:01:14 -0700 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.208.45; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-f45.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/18 09:01:16 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256081 Archived-At: I see two issues with how defcustoms are currently being obsoleted. See `M-x customize-group RET dired RET', for example. 1. Why is Emacs offering to customize something that has no effect? See "Dired Free Space Args", whose documentation says: This variable is obsolete since 27.1; ignored, as Emacs uses =E2=80=98file-system-info=E2=80=99 instead Would it make sense to change ignored options such as this into defvars instead? (We could keep variables like "Dired Load Hook" as a defcustom, since it still has an effect.) 2. Finding out that an option is obsolete The obsolete options use a different face. However, it's not obvious that this is the meaning of that face. One either has to run `what-cursor-position' to see that the face is named `custom-variable-obsolete', or expand first the option itself, and then its documentation, and then after having seen a couple of examples induce that the face means "obsolete". Could we add some other marker besides just the color to show that these options have been declared obsolete? For example by adding the text "(obsolete)" in a prominent location. Best regards, Stefan Kangas