From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 12:45:31 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> <01341bd6-b94b-4f94-1461-405e723142ad@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23392"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "Philip K." , Daniel Fleischer , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel , Stefan Monnier , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii To: =?UTF-8?Q?Elias_M=C3=A5rtenson?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 03 10:46:46 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mM4qU-0005xo-FL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 10:46:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56080 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mM4qS-0000fP-Mu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 04:46:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39464) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mM4pX-0008En-J6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 04:45:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-f172.google.com ([209.85.210.172]:39619) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mM4pV-0006z9-PT; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 04:45:47 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-f172.google.com with SMTP id e16so3768489pfc.6; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 01:45:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=X8Ljkt7tfkB2WMhe3CZJGDkp0DMu3jAba6Z/pg4OR2M=; b=RGROPSl4T9rvfD3EdKliHE6PFq4bIlHvnrUcUbZDz3/XccMRJ/r+kl1vBHvq0r3tD1 cQbvL6xlrleAAW+wvaAMjBfGCiBZiy11vbBzL+7e/BYZ5Q9DGkn6UA+QuLqYw6jZs/QS U9wMSB/Nr8hCJUeR6y2w4XXtfv77bhk6Trwf8lHlPNdG6VfgcY7Fl2edZVsWZKfkebdF MvQnWZsazOoJ4V0kNQXZt+jFTQHL7FNsyDe+JpUz1pk+4kk1jfarchnS38ctbk4e0HmL 8Q4vRFedbWBXHJgvLCQ7uuKDJQMC8ouEoMuIPwYppFXvRDiZ9KpUedo6BW7hcL2+xkW8 yu8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532h9EfUZyQ5wydZSOv6Ef9f/HFYHqASrbjB1GR1qeCg2mW6ZT07 F8hk1Fzus3e9P7l8szn+sr3mY332SmVpKhr94+w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/7TqSwnSNwmA4V8H33lwU3t4X7Thc9EHwVNBCDxye80ZQKSli4IOh5PAsRe6IL6rbA97259Flfcz1/9Dr2v0= X-Received: by 2002:a63:4c5c:: with SMTP id m28mr2677369pgl.67.1630658743718; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 01:45:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.210.172; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-f172.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273758 Archived-At: Elias M=C3=A5rtenson writes: > If whatever is popular equals better, then Emacs would have been rewritte= n in Java already, no wait, Ruby, no actually Python, sorry I meant Javascr= ipt. > > A lot of things are familiar to a lot of people, but familiarity is ortho= gonal to quality. Many of the things some of us would like to see changed are not mainly characterized by being particularly good. They are just different. To give a concrete example, the kill ring is objectively better/more powerful than the undo/redo you find in other text editors. It is also harder to use, of course, but that's the territory Emacs thrives in. But why is kill-region bound to C-w instead of C-x? I'm not really advocating to change that key binding, but it is also clearly not better. In fact, it is worse, precisely because one might as well use the more familiar key binding. If we started Emacs from a clean slate today, we would obviously have put kill-region on C-x. We would in my opinion do well to take opportunities to make Emacs behave more in line with modern user expectations. As the above example shows, that is not always going to be easy. But there is no reason to expect that careful work here would not lead to a better, if slightly different, Emacs. (And if you hate the results, Emacs is always going to be customizable. So you can have your cake, and eat it too.)