From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master e714b31 3/6: Merge from origin/emacs-28 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:59:48 -0800 Message-ID: References: <20211106092430.31690.17236@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20211106092433.20A2420A22@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87zgqcgg3n.fsf@gmail.com> <87bl2rfprn.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6i3p64e.fsf@gnus.org> <83ilwqzxo5.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39945"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 18 03:01:27 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mnWjv-000AB1-7L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 03:01:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37624 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mnWjt-0003JB-DB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 21:01:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33238) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mnWiP-0001it-EG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:59:53 -0500 Original-Received: from [2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c] (port=45029 helo=mail-pl1-x62c.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mnWiN-0002c0-6a; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:59:53 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id q17so3826702plr.11; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:59:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ptSQsrAWdlUDwjsQe7Jt1zmWqDiP3YapBbmbASakTHw=; b=m8+cxaXpEOxPqBgxSWN0FMiuTMM6fVW4BBOaeqkRo7/S3iJUS/7nKY/1X3xe8zCMaS ZTIWsFq2QnsPtQS2aFGn1UUQJ0Vi4tqDhx/wafzsWsGaBYLhxO1siBSHdhYkJ/dcWHiH cOUnllEhXvyPHrKSrmXjyd79qqEtjpMw1JNuKNAMAjBFU1sn8PM1P9YWAbfyHww75kF/ qwQ2DNcvjK56mRfXAH6YILco0NnmS8pAua0pxJ5Pq1BLIASiET7O5WV8YkHERh3usSGm XGvvvgbw2UGqTmSu8TYURYFDbYpCowDtaaX59byCqlGPrWB5KEqd1UzMNQice464iVYL mEFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ptSQsrAWdlUDwjsQe7Jt1zmWqDiP3YapBbmbASakTHw=; b=H/JJymM/BYpFd8x+70Jc2gm1wZ0SiVZJn7H93B5xVKLJWrESCWNoeRAWv2QMgFLVBo 1qjXXBuIe5BBsAtDuODYFuGe+A8CyjyWU/P/Wp+aokIR3AAlKR6BFSUVg3YdL7Q0PCz9 04p1oz1JkJy0WSQhzW7bW9YwMD6zuR3g7PJKCAsubBBZwycTrWXXB1dTOEWAyc4e3ih7 hf/6WUPokqoz4XTAbK+Wk1qCYfQZnm8P8CLSRDp3LgA1HytmJjYHTjFJjWTpL6VRm+WM bf5kTVJNa+oKmnrKSWlNO4TGyaxI7jO/ba2J9eKm3AiJX1RmTClPGgqnQrpCBSu1r6aX 0ISg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Q9cG/BV5AOc9pykn8IL/I/BftkSlDuwJCl3bMfftXdYKJL8eq kNDqf0EVBZuVnGxHtgDL8K8JESjfIRgZp5WqZmsrgQj1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzASYHXtPoAHMhKZvUd0m9GYC+Nx8govMD/fM6Jc5U+d7oyUgOJw+FS+fmm3eGuPt3BIPFrF1dcAFPrLeiGjkk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:4414:: with SMTP id s20mr5760645pjg.132.1637200789447; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:59:49 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:59:48 -0800 In-Reply-To: <83ilwqzxo5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:279647 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I tried to point out the downsides: the change is not really trivial, > and therefore will have fallout, as always happens with such changes. > And we will have to deal with that fallout. Of course, since we are > always overly optimistic and hope there will be no unintended > consequences, we always tend to underestimate the downsides. I understand your general concern, as with any code change, but I don't agree with the conclusion that we must not make this particular change. I expect that there will be fallout only in code that assumes that an etc/NEWS file exists. (Creating the symlink on GNU/Linux is mostly just convenience and not a proper solution, IMO.) I think I covered most such cases in my patch, but of course I might have missed a few. Having reviewed many (most? all?) such cases in our tree though, I very seriously doubt that any of it will be hard to change. It is a trivial case of: point it to NEWS.NN if NEWS doesn't exist. You can see some examples in my latest patch. Any such changes should be small and localized. Once we cut the emacs-29 branch, gitmerge.el may or may not need more changes. I think there is plenty of time to test it though, and I intend to do so if and when this lands on master. From my cursory reading, this will take at most a small amount of effort, as it just involves skipping some special handling that is no longer needed. > For non-problems such as this one, changes like this are just waste of > time and energy. VCS is a tool, a means to an end; let's not make > changes in our code and create opportunity for subtle bugs just > because people rarely make VCS-related mistakes. This is just one thread of many that we have had about the issues this has caused over the years. We would arrive at the exact same conclusion whether or not this latest incident had happened or not. In fact, we discussed it just the other week as well, in the thread where Glenn said he won't be doing the merges. Sweeping it under the rug by calling it a "non-problem" is no solution at all. The real reasons for wanting to fix this real problem are: - It destroys our git history for the NEWS.NN file every time we cut a release branch. - It makes merging hard and error-prone. - It really is an abuse of git when we could instead use it to our advantage. (There is no need to maintain custom code for a "merge" that still leaves history broken when we could just let git do it.) I propose that instead of fixing bugs in a fundamentally broken and wrong solution, we just do the right thing. We will have fewer bugs to fix in the long run, and there are important advantages.