From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Discoverability (was: Changes for 28) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 19:51:59 -0700 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26525"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Tom Gillespie , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 04:52:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFqDp-0006mL-GR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 04:52:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46530 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFqDo-0000uY-JV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 22:52:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33222) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFqDL-0000UC-Tr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 22:52:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x543.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::543]:39032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFqDK-0006FZ-AT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 22:52:03 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x543.google.com with SMTP id c10so1081688edk.6 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 19:52:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=q+L3qJaJfskAT/cAVOfk6jnv82VpLzlkIOyakTVGjRs=; b=A06qSgEiVGJLljBRro2AshyJ7b/2GuZ4ekURuQ9/1LMDAmR0Ek+K11UGUU/NsX9bGy LpkXYzSoS3MA357lQDv4P3KhUMLIyQi9nBJ2Kxe0hG1z8DSyDgif7Ri0mvAlEK0H1R7S soMXZYS9Lgxx6xuVqhF0TMPEU8T8RzuKxK0nSRG/Zow9UJx4KSYWzXFPo01cojk+ySSc WMfMkvgKQMcHr2PeaAL7K/n7J9rLsN27Uf0Ou3/0smH3JWLoAbZDy2eEl+mNT9zfVKci mwFrDG7azRD8fqhD5dkYkRs4bLBtvFJrlEfwT9eD9OiZ2QU8JI0gteRgkKsvWJ+U7R+J pLBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=q+L3qJaJfskAT/cAVOfk6jnv82VpLzlkIOyakTVGjRs=; b=W6OieHg39m1m0PUMp0oIVmw7hOPvs+m8x6HBUS1kt2xdZXi0oICdN3Q9Un4yFTB7ip 9bhR1RKYVyk42whDsr5tpi+uNvUsYb9kFaKzLX2hZDTAyg/z27Zn2s2fB0kgngLtOGHU le+6Y8Nc6dCpNpnIl49H1Y09tz0pUAfP+MI+fYE0QUxDFGLEbsAbNUxKB3ZG2who4opZ ECG18gSaMRJi0g+m/Qa2HU1NDvMLp3iiVGHTUdmNGV1wL9JT2HlqZkjeW9SP8219YsWH rKPC9YUt85QLtl55YxnYMVZPZSozOkinxwi09HhQLOW3mA8whpJocv73NSepmbA5O5SG Dn7A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530CJ745nfeH6FjWStdo3Hm9q9IXA4o0hu8JBTlY1ZhOFwoB2eQh WNhE+xA63nfW4NBT0rXvasGbwcHbvNgDX7iZCY4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwMrMynRMneXVzi64r5rJ0kGoRQ1H4bEOnuw7h8LXyi6pJZSelisuPdElBXItT18ARyZbWX/XuWQGPGIUEBiQw= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:c148:: with SMTP id r8mr2050561edp.210.1599619920568; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 19:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 8 Sep 2020 19:51:59 -0700 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::543; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x543.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254832 Archived-At: Hi Tom, Tom Gillespie writes: > Since Emacs is for all intents and purposes an operating system in the > same sense that the Linux kernel is an operating system, it has to > follow the golden rules for operating systems which is "never break > user space." I find the analogy to be fundamentally broken. We jest that Emacs is an operating system, but really it is not. It's a text editor. I don't see how the "don't break userspace" maxim of Linux kernel development could be applied to Emacs in any meaningful way. We deal in Lisp, not ABI:s. > That means that certain seemingly simple and quick > solutions, like changing defaults, are forever off the table. If so, it's a new rule. AFAICT, defaults both can and do change. See NEWS for Emacs 27.1. Best regards, Stefan Kangas