From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Consistent face for keys in *Help* and `substitute-command-keys' Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2021 13:35:52 -0600 Message-ID: References: <83zgzsq7xn.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9afriqp.fsf@gnu.org> <83zgzjhvdn.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6rhxwah.fsf@gnu.org> <837dmlxspt.fsf@gnu.org> <834khpxr0s.fsf@gnu.org> <8335x8ybw9.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwageno.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <878s6xwngp.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874khjq6p8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34587"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 10 20:42:57 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lK4jQ-0008rQ-Vn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 20:42:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56218 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lK4jQ-0007jz-1Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:42:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49456) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lK4cg-0007Zn-Eo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:35:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com ([209.85.210.175]:46701) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lK4cd-0007uI-IC; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:35:57 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id t85so7526415pfc.13; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 11:35:54 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IGDKvb6enwhACZgqxQGVRkItPOIqFkl4dsl0+2mXUUg=; b=m0F8IdlnRFz+V4jSGeFQ1VvgNw+GIk9pK6ugMNJp/qsMc/gvhJDBBoM6+SEXCaR7mP nM3OzGKVeucAe7RduTS4/hlO3AOC6K0Wbyate+hFsB8BHMdv/6LPB0DpWs3aJ6VG2Ay1 HuF/cWrZDYiJT/FUGdG6xtxA/S4IjsL2FApfvHpar1qs3h2paghVji0Y+w7yVW0WLESn 3EcUWJuZ59jEvN6AXDoQk2SMOxZzVoI/WwOpgFJy8TrXdNYsjbje0Rt2TkwX/+SReE6E Fv0Z3UrG6kjm9Okt82lOt/ZyCMfL46IxD+0eYGVx8SFgLma91ZCUEC6aDKu6PG5PSBHM HOng== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533FUtCrdjnxGbyDadCGvTvOJNTD63rgQUIn1oCZ1UEdTNyGdnxj V0YO6G47TlEmab32WbVxv5z+QW78m7uXFBEOtE0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwuznnxAt+eJbRnCAQA29uhMYa0w9rcVTcRJw536wIcfL28QY/vLJ2lsZyPgyk4bRNGULNX3te4undCDCJTEA8= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8889:0:b029:1ed:f38:4438 with SMTP id z9-20020aa788890000b02901ed0f384438mr4270500pfe.44.1615404952885; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 11:35:52 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 13:35:52 -0600 In-Reply-To: <874khjq6p8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.210.175; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-f175.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266298 Archived-At: Juri Linkov writes: > When the contrast with the default background is too low, then users > will miss the highlighting, so when the user doesn't see that it has > a different color then it will look as if there is no highlighting at all. Yes, we definitely want to avoid that situation. > But when it's slightly darker, then I see no problem for users. > So it seems better to have a slightly darker color than to let users > miss highlighting. > > To decide what would be a good default, you need to take into accounts > opinions of the majority of users, but also possible problems > that the default could cause to the minority of users. Good, I think we agree on the principles. The problem I have, and again that's just with my combination of eyes and monitor, I find it hard to read when the background is too dark. I suspect that my screen is simply darker than yours for some reason. (Or my eyes are less sensitive to light, if that's a thing.) > Maybe, I tried grey95, but when the prompt us at the bottom of the screen: > > foo changed on disk; really edit the buffer? (y, n, r or C-h) > > highlighting of single letters is indistinguishable from the background. This confirms that our situations are indeed different. >> Here I see #fafbfc for keys, which is between gray98 and gray99, with an >> added outline: >> >> https://docs.github.com/en/github/getting-started-with-github/keyboard-shortcuts > > Indeed, with a border, it's hard to miss highlighting. [...] > Then it's possible to use flat with rounded borders, without 3D effect. What do you think of something like: :background "grey92" :foreground "DarkBlue" :box (:line-width 1 :color "grey80")) On my screen, this is legible. The DarkBlue and border makes it at the same time stand out as highlighted. I'm very open to another color (or indeed none at all, but it stands out a bit more to me with something lighter than #000). For me the DarkBlue is very subtle, and my wife tells me the same (using her own set of eyes, but my monitor). If it doesn't work very well in your situation, could you propose something which does? Maybe we can tweak it so it is acceptable (or even good) for us both, and then hope for the best. With a bit of luck, we are both close to the extreme ends of the spectrum here. This assumption could of course be wildly inaccurate, but then we can only hope that someone protests.