From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2022 07:47:05 -0800 Message-ID: References: <651bbe21-f179-730a-4f10-7dc6d27055ea@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2079"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , Andrea Corallo , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel To: =?UTF-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= , =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 08 16:48:07 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1osQpZ-00008S-6z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2022 16:48:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1osQoz-00087n-Vq; Tue, 08 Nov 2022 10:47:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1osQok-000857-6S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2022 10:47:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oa1-x32.google.com ([2001:4860:4864:20::32]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1osQof-00024V-E8; Tue, 08 Nov 2022 10:47:12 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-oa1-x32.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-13b103a3e5dso16675820fac.2; Tue, 08 Nov 2022 07:47:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=yZNhb07t89W84LtU4NF/LJLI33oXt+M/UeJ1eaWRQbk=; b=n9dNjb/U/2UNK5bZP4aUTYwkSoXCuUjEw5UhyNH+f8gnROMxfPW6hx4+5/x71dfkC5 G2468C0b86ITByzqRE2+3yT0x+0Ufe9QevVrNKab+qtBSTbYq7O5LdNfLo92Gn6nCx8e kBmZqKiLbMqXLDxHqoSQa1L05G6xGp/Yewq/s4yoHikhHKZFiJHcLAwLIkzjgoITXMPT qHeMMOC2FHRQmjBpnYpDS5Svz9j+hpx4CsMZAOa4CVIaoHyWnSzo0hVBaJrH3vOHibbp PdaS/VlxdK12NXN11vk3HqARLdvjIJJgtX6aqtEdBBGtxdlRUmtc0YpAU68MYlN/iKxD ncRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=yZNhb07t89W84LtU4NF/LJLI33oXt+M/UeJ1eaWRQbk=; b=dSy4/L/1dSUh97FN7p9EBlKu9f/9+1Je6JAw9CzUj0VO/UpuHpvEd9gEJwW161JPD/ qo8Wu2+Mpx/582NxzQ+cRFbFX7PSBe1LxOENKzTNHHGHYnEVDE1bkQsKtFn+e7DUKDpx vnykuInGubcbrjHfbJZoUwSWkeqt+cHdZdtMVSDrSYsIKgah+/b1BoHApw5Ppmoeuqi8 Vxh7rkCK6ZYGlkH6fTvuQiV24mmvhcH/gI3Nmu4vqMHDM5rOuYVK1QMBaaI43c/Y7CKn Ce/1oKaqHkAOcIpP3UAiOB6m+KLQk8FXRq3Ohq1a2Cb9C9y8LythGF7DSSyBO01qndQ2 2xDw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf0PookMEu8k/CWcc9l6XSGc0Hfr694K+RrXrYvpRHPgqoxg9nvZ our19SjRjIDcIxqfh1B/P6Po57h0NT+pRM3QSuA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7K12YZqq5/yTsVP2PAbvP524niZ0lm2tscS2vwpGRlYAFCJYCaAjnSqB7RkhjnZIYnAAm7KEAxAgHQvC1gFvM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:c0d5:b0:13a:fb98:713d with SMTP id e21-20020a056870c0d500b0013afb98713dmr43431272oad.199.1667922425887; Tue, 08 Nov 2022 07:47:05 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 8 Nov 2022 07:47:05 -0800 In-Reply-To: X-Hashcash: 1:20:221108:gerd.moellmann@gmail.com::x3WbzorC4jLF1yNF:1sf4 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:4860:4864:20::32; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa1-x32.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299351 Archived-At: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > What I meant was using shorthands as the basis for a general mechanism > that somehow solves a "problem" that other languages use modules for. I > mean, a design, or at least what I understand under a design, should > have at least briefly considered things like Eldoc, xref, completions, > and what else there is. I didn't see/hear this, and it only slowly > comes up and generates "we could do this or that". TBH, that reminds me > a bit of Greenspun's tenth. > > But anyways, the ship has sailed. Has it? Richard's most recent patch has not been installed, AFAICT. As Jo=C3=A3o explained, shorthands was added mainly for the benefit of s.el and dash.el (none of which uses it yet, I think?). But it was not clear from the discussion at the time that it was to be extended into a general module system. That's a more recent development. Until and unless changes in that direction have been installed, it seems premature to talk about sailing ships.