From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Reconsider make-backup-files default value Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2024 23:31:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <86o74ndcxy.fsf@gnu.org> <87o74l2iyk.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29277"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: James Ipswich , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 19 01:32:00 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sr49O-0007WR-QZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2024 01:31:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sr48h-0000RE-7y; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 19:31:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sr48f-0000Qr-2q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 19:31:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sr48d-0007wO-H7; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 19:31:12 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5c26a52cf82so146240a12.2; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:31:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1726702269; x=1727307069; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=t9jEqhnua1yPYg1s7jff9N/ilylKvUqFwCyDupdd/QU=; b=F/7swIqiUotiRif/AkVKdJ585D0KeWbhUaptAcNFi1WTwLWC2JJvRo5fHDCEnRV/TR 7KeOy/a6x0UVokzFlXMN5AORfa0bxv6GsWaKPxwxqH639kR0jD27NsmVd0A392/MbnSE cneXJZde8F33rcqF51PTy5/sbBqZHDue5dCX6cKtj6dNH2ypy5f6eKNGrb5inPruadyk HBCT5WZBw9fKav4TtnYYcVZiT/6I52pbRzLQQtGmfe/ux+HcQMY93KX7NmS+XWcMuihJ BF2x06ooG/lm41bLHFpSDVU8E3svlA54/s0vvB+DccPqcG5jNSfr+pZ4PWNhej51WkzK hN6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1726702269; x=1727307069; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=t9jEqhnua1yPYg1s7jff9N/ilylKvUqFwCyDupdd/QU=; b=AWL48Ho2SVkbDnoQoqRQAsQgj47YH+WAikvOZxIAp2qOazWWZu7NHbeo5FHCyY1jd3 aIWHXlTszx5ojtDmfTyYEAjVTfNDXuGu1qKfXS3ufwsWfbzVKRY6benMnQO0cach2x3R 8isIJaeD7+uOh+pDQfN8EgKqrWsLnoUV3vMSkfaS4SCirkTafpJOS/gqe3RJCSX1K72j 4PSM6qh7DeSwrjx7B83HdzLAETKRfNH5pdxUyikT5z2mO3l71Kvf9PMibKTj/QpYYz05 0hH5XI3zAP8ZRS/Z3pn07v/6bT2llK2jpYLLdVZCf0tyVpCQ/jL9Ekw8tHN7D5yxWdpu W5ag== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUGmorDjgz8VrkYnKcWUKuzV5SYnPdAYkJY29KQk0fjAQbSQs7arzmksZCBNcztKBfBpClUjakjD4/Hnp8=@gnu.org, AJvYcCW5UeECqtmj0rzDuqcInu1CbuhjzfwWB4NP5pN1rSFtcMDA/jUGWxfRjbAdhYCjWU4h6s2z@gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxkuod5nOwb51wY01RrOCJ9Um8YgqJ75SxEPCKf3lD6roD4CoK8 9Ov7eC5AhghZjBzYKfVcjFtKHBBrbo/wAxZ3AHLzeY9OO9NKmFb13oEVtXjucQTJry+AT2apuBw tG7mgGnJe0+agK2jscIwsWcg4j8Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEJ8tBgpYl+4nLLe7YXNYQByPwPxFgqiXD1JR9B4t9b3RFP9EiB1Zy89bM6bC24KYu/GXqv7K2lty2Z/U7Hy2A= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:3591:b0:5c3:d0e1:9f81 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5c41dea6bc1mr25907274a12.7.1726702268443; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 23:31:07 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87o74l2iyk.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52d; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323739 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > To be quite honest, I don't understand why the default state of backup > files has arisen for "deep philosophical" debate. It's because no other text editor does it by default, and many users consider them as useless clutter. I think it's expected that this question will come up every now and then, as long as its the default. > Their usefulness is plain for all to see. FWIW, I find them quite useless. I have put them in a separate directory for 20+ years, and have never had to consult that directory. In some cases, I wished I had disabled them, because some data I thought I had deleted was kept (the "passwords.txt" case). YMMV. That said, I have no strong opinion about changing the default. Neither choice is obviously better (on or off). The main reason for keeping what we have now is that it's always been that way, and changing it might surprise some users. If this feature had been added today, we would obviously have kept it disabled by default.