From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Display of em dashes in our documentation Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 11:09:13 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4209edd83cfee7c84b2d75ebfcd38784fa21b23c.camel@crossproduct.net> <87v92ft9z6.fsf@db48x.net> <87o885tyle.fsf@db48x.net> <83k0it6lu5.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0isu7hz.fsf_-_@db48x.net> <87a6jotszy.fsf@db48x.net> <877der8smr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83y2772y0s.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfxd1g05.fsf@gnu.org> <83tuhtyn46.fsf@gnu.org> <83o880zuxs.fsf@gnu.org> <838rz4ypkt.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16287"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, juri@linkov.net, db48x@db48x.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 08 17:12:03 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mYrXW-0003wv-UW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2021 17:12:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44708 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mYrXV-0005PF-Fj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2021 11:12:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36708) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mYrUw-000393-5r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2021 11:09:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b]:35520) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mYrUr-0008PZ-0f; Fri, 08 Oct 2021 11:09:21 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id e7so3402137pgk.2; Fri, 08 Oct 2021 08:09:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Rh3aNmdbLI3yFv9q/1iru7ujvZqDMEE4NKMI7a+trLQ=; b=hohY0UyratblioDsG6QvmjfZuUMHH2kEyHXjurMC73327/B5NjhdHcou1DvSYZa1k2 QDhrUHIKIYcgP4Wzd2n3ddLf/CNp8NgZu7k9Y8o6aj9XGzich6s0YE58gdxCVjrgZ8lT dWRPqIq5LjIAx/2PTqvxSJyq8ehVgHykUBnZIZFT6xzLQM3h9w/mqb95Wee4VDgyUgP+ q59HVsCbnz1tvNygPMDpgYbJuuoJS86qxw/0boM0DJHPfGQIgv01/5NvFztu2FVXUduL zeFjkCON4/3lYuVJCAddgoKgEjIx5XtfxwdCmw/If8xZdfcnWEhTHyVH9kaQMBqBGGxr B9wA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Rh3aNmdbLI3yFv9q/1iru7ujvZqDMEE4NKMI7a+trLQ=; b=lfcOBQyRbVaopVT9NIEkbZjMfEEaiGgZlQ6jMhMGgfEsOpcHKs6Q2IxK434broDz4Y NNIZnKRlRC6vsbfDlxFY3odzEkAFl8VdSZBmujpfchEIs7kMZiZ20c6Xull34+u/UCwe 65GOh7KDDH5KQs9Oq7hqGMibJZvxZrjcTX80byRtC9JmDCOV1bbOfoeca3Hv23QL5LlD YMIrkfa+MB0zDJnX2eqeKna+XtNZsXZo6ZZTLP5Uqm0ZBqVIRjT+Bm7aS7+KEpUbWEhF 7d81hqLC2TeRwtI5o8+NJr7DlDqHNvjCyT+Q6sg7odfFSQX10o5utNs7PJ3XiZn/4vVb H39w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5326nFrQZcRj2gPaQ+bssxBIZ3bTU5Mz4nGzO5sug0bqi4eb9a8f LQ1GVJHanMRnwzGHYk0ulnNcSBFKd71dTHqFcBkzMRY/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwrsWBzVatv6MZj4Gmi412QgyCutcjOWI/+ydxx4v1a4GEFdxc4o1aG0PL1Iwa4WM4wsZOics9oz7eQSOoenno= X-Received: by 2002:a63:7e11:: with SMTP id z17mr5137383pgc.114.1633705754160; Fri, 08 Oct 2021 08:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 8 Oct 2021 11:09:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <838rz4ypkt.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276563 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Even if such an option existed, it would still beg the question: how > to produce the Info manuals we provide as part of the Emacs release > tarballs? The downside of any decision in this matter is that it is > imposed on everyone, no matter what their views on this. OTOH, they already get the old/readable em dash rendering in many other GNU manuals. So perhaps not many people are very invested in the issue? > So I'd prefer to deal with this differently: introduce a new > (buffer-local) minor mode, which will install a display-table, whereby > "problematic" Unicode characters will be displayed as their ASCII > equivalents or equivalent ASCII strings. We already set that up > automatically on terminals that are incapable of displaying those > characters, but nothing precludes us from having such a feature on > demand for capable displays as well. Then users who don't want the > effects of these characters on display could activate such a mode, and > solve their problems without affecting the actual contents of the Info > files. That's an interesting idea. So you propose that this minor mode could display many more problematic Unicode characters in a different way, and that it would not necessarily be limited to info? I guess it doesn't take much coding, but the interesting question is which other Unicode characters it should cover. I only know about em dash; are there others? One drawback is that em dash is only confirmed to be problematic in some situations; that is when they are written "like=E2=80=94this" with no space= in between, whereas in situations "like =E2=80=94 this" I think it is much preferable to show the actual Unicode character. Actually, this gives me another way of how we could do it: in our info manuals, as the final step before displaying it, we do something like this (here quickly coded up as a hook): (defun sk/Info-fix-em-dashes () (save-excursion (goto-char (point-min)) (let ((case-fold-search t) (buffer-read-only nil)) (while (re-search-forward "\\([a-z=E2=80=9D=E2=80=99']\\)=E2=80= =94\\([a-z]=E2=80=9C=E2=80=98`'\\)" nil t) (replace-match "\\1 =E2=80=94 \\2" t))))) (add-hook 'Info-selection-hook #'sk/Info-fix-em-dashes) (info "(emacs) After a Crash") This could be made optional, or even the default if we agree that it is more readable than what we have now. In any monospace font, I certainly prefer this: When =E2=80=98recover-session=E2=80=99 is done, the files you=E2=80= =99ve chosen to recover are present in Emacs buffers. You should then save them. Only this =E2=80=94 saving them =E2=80=94 updates the files themselves. To this: When =E2=80=98recover-session=E2=80=99 is done, the files you=E2=80= =99ve chosen to recover are present in Emacs buffers. You should then save them. Only this=E2=80=94saving them=E2=80=94updates the files themselves. That way, everyone gets readable text but also UTF-8 characters. Win-win. Perhaps this is even something the Texinfo developers would be willing to consider.