From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Blog post Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:14:34 -0800 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13497"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Eshel Yaron , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 00:15:38 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNhnN-0003IU-1U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 00:15:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNhmS-0006cH-OQ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 18:14:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNhmR-0006bt-9J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 18:14:39 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNhmP-0000pO-94 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 18:14:38 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5537dd673e5so3996294a12.0 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:14:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704928475; x=1705533275; darn=gnu.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rxUel0f+xtL7JI8FszE6oL76ViWvS25mpLi9vAyxExA=; b=A5MMX09upr3T1aigAxtlVMvItLx3PjkM7mnyrLqs2y/Ng+3OYQeYO7ySAeuB3CuRgW RQmyVoDJ0vc1XxZFpfz79K24aXWl7A7e3TdK0NTwR0b3Yk/5pcNGU2NvcILV1fDgZhfh uNxHdfarVSl3g1oO1NNrP721azEhRn2F5Tn8zxEy9/0T9QzN43XxDurbSZH+9UAdip6Q kjKzSofhLnrhHBYPteatwcU2uqZnnYTmqmuOBB45aUJR3lJloXQTP6ww7ODBKBi7Cf1n DOnsOFFS90XXzCpAsRv6h9rqIC0TNr7JMg9K1+26AOpXQfAH7/7ylIcwMjiBg6OaWkwG W+jA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704928475; x=1705533275; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rxUel0f+xtL7JI8FszE6oL76ViWvS25mpLi9vAyxExA=; b=PDojlGy58lfAaCiRgW/LNNiXxMsbimtgXTjAwYllq7f7CHYLofbpZg8rvLn98rTBGs BzvtLpaFfBBIYk7WRlf8P+U1E5Ju4Jc/U5PP+k5Og7YumigtF/yMU7RYjkQGbDsGtR9/ AFE3zGU8v50pDlLACsKViz5+N2HxI7kp3nAhNQFz/RU+1OJTTcAQNIQ49GYs8qRl63J+ 420VzC46Ww2ccnN8GENq+m6qtDjdvoAolTbn+mTfUm1AZWmH3c8jb//7s8H7vElbotuL nE2szHMzuskACl3HkPEn3CaQU7HR0cp2tb4iP2PSFlpWnlkxdUYuKqwAuOIsI/UdaeAr RdyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YywufMRHnR4tv44PhOqhg5UCHDFx/kebxLyCXvBnjg7vcF6mWFE yRY26G9dovaPix443GRUNIyjVFPEMJ4rvDX3rwOj4PbamUE5tw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG9Vhq7Pc3cJHEPQigBFrjrtZHuEUl1hzAybuy4fjYp9NoB/1wj6XuKD1odFDvTQs1gPqbssRhdCVLNc0JmMcI= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:c50e:0:b0:558:1856:f1e4 with SMTP id o14-20020aa7c50e000000b005581856f1e4mr105574edq.19.1704928475598; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:14:35 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:14:34 -0800 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::536; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x536.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314827 Archived-At: Hi Eshel, [Emacs co-maintainer here, but I'm only speaking for myself. I meant to send this in December, but never did. So this comes a bit late. Sorry if it's a bit long.] I can't speak for the people that were attacked in that post, but I can say that it made me concerned. In particular, it seemed far removed from the type of culture that we want to promote in Emacs development. I thought about its purpose, and had a few guesses for what it might all be about. One option I considered was that it was simply someone making a mistake due to not considering in advance the impact that words might have. It seems like this was indeed the case here, and that's good. Emacs is a small church, and we need to always keep our shared goal in mind. I think everyone fundamentally agrees that sowing distrust cannot help further our goals. It's when the going gets rough, and the technical disagreements are extra sharp, that we need to pay particular attention to how we communicate and treat each other. Let's be sensitive to and respect that some people might still be hurt and upset by the incident. That said, I believe that everyone deserves a second chance. So for my part at least, the matter is settled with the above apology. In addition to your apology, I also note that your original blog post has been replaced with a simple notice of its retraction. In my book, that also goes a long way. Hopefully, your apology will have made this episode somewhat less taxing for Thierry and Eli. Let's hope that both of them will carry on their outstanding work for Emacs. I also very much hope to see you continuing to contribute to Emacs going forward, of course. A month has now passed, and soon that will be a year. Patches and technical discussions will make that time go by faster, and we have important work to do. So let's get to it.