From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: jami-bot and org-jami-bot Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 03:58:34 -0600 Message-ID: References: <875y0i7e43.fsf@hoowl.se> <87y1cyqoso.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27564"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, hanno@hoowl.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 14 10:59:30 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rOxH7-00070q-VK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 10:59:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOxGM-00017b-4g; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 04:58:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOxGK-00017F-Dh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 04:58:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOxGH-0002Xw-Jm; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 04:58:40 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-337874b8164so2745295f8f.2; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:58:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705226315; x=1705831115; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=aSpjw6+sbea6pYxLivmCUn17kPoLxDZU47OKk/3+pBc=; b=f5+KD93YLz8JDnTO6j3/Z1mcnbaTcUlblpQjyUaj1yx2aZak4TPEVT7p7hm3SSblML IOGwI2a2H9JW26/IoPwayFdmgjf+8VjyjngtpuM9ooM9HP0eXNE0SSznRyiPTBsWuH4I g1VbYDVDvyDAjIGMMI4Fc66XU92FD2JAcbtfbW/a7ZeZBGo18ECELiB/qO1o1OVpWMwr ZLAsrIoYsWXG6xXreOjM8dOgN2pbG7oAeiLWjTcYumDQRCKTHVmyLqPOc5msil3MNckT MEtgr0Y1xd1EaUn9JIkas4oW9PTO4mPV8389dJhlN7jgXwgBerprYCzcdB3ko6s2ub33 XjhA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705226315; x=1705831115; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=aSpjw6+sbea6pYxLivmCUn17kPoLxDZU47OKk/3+pBc=; b=DTj+9wMae4FJnJUKIz9lN+W0lAjwhDO22+LRo9mCvIr+aRCYUNScCI+4euxqbcKs9M aVkVraGQIoF9BGPRV+z/efDMQxZJh/fk5O5FiXmWVVVqOilvuIQqr4ZvpldmJCMDL/tj SgQ2UtXCKASeHt5H7H74aaVT+nNecgiARDyVozgkz4waZOEdqYURQRNhpZ5Izatp6dia /xEiEbnw/L6SOXa49AxhDGu9YvfEee/lcCfqxDBvxexvcHQKbWLgyBgBRNH3jL5q3UQ9 S3u1+tQ18vgwl2I5qs354Ly5EfokNyY0uwuMN2/Hz/bun4bAgz2le+OfmxK6JFkcQIvK pHTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxppF04MosjpYTIHy6BrBzNTvMQ095amoFlOt47k8vseCKFDoBL JTHWxqRn5es/klCoJ4m7e5ePH2Jym3TGUnL8ZGa2XG4G X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEAxcbCozAbbT2bBZObZo/FiVArDC3n8iIfchIuTjgdqy9PA1YigRKisiATu0G7bliIbKc1Rth6P+PIFl1aTqY= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ee4a:0:b0:337:39c7:2b52 with SMTP id w10-20020adfee4a000000b0033739c72b52mr2184471wro.36.1705226314946; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:58:34 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 03:58:34 -0600 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::431; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x431.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314958 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > To change it 'not to > > require org' amounts to writing another package from scratch." > > Maybe that's what's needed, then. The crucial thing is that this > feature "Jami capture" not be limited to Org mode. But any reasonable way > of doing it is ok -- that level is not what the issue is about. We can't start blocking Org specific features until they are rewritten to work without Org too, because that puts an undue burden on contributors. People are scratching their own itches first and foremost. Note that we don't put up any such roadblocks in other cases. It is fine to suggest it, of course. But we can't force people. Some might consider this a moral issue, but it is actually even more so a practical one: they will simply go away (for example to MELPA). When discussing with package authors how their package might better fit into the broader Emacs environment, we should prefer nudging people in the right direction, and be careful to inspire rather than demotivate. I'm concerned that this subthread is not doing that, since it started out with the proposal that the package shouldn't even be accepted. What's more, the only thing that stands out about this particular package is that its core functionality is already separated out into `jami-bot', which others can use to build things for their own favorite non-Org modes.