From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 09:17:43 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <87r0nlngmo.fsf@posteo.net> <2d6a9558-4a4f-47e8-9122-62c7665e5f73@app.fastmail.com> <87ledn1dyu.fsf@posteo.net> <8bf9ac13-d620-4b5c-8e03-de21c4d85506@app.fastmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11659"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , Richard Stallman , Danny Freeman , Eli Zaretskii , Emacs Devel , Manuel Uberti To: Bozhidar Batsov , Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 03 18:18:06 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qcpna-0002oJ-TO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 18:18:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcpnL-0000UM-FV; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:17:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcpnJ-0000Tr-HH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:17:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcpnH-0003Zz-26; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:17:49 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-500cefc3644so1175634e87.3; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 09:17:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693757864; x=1694362664; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bTudVn7idWjnfaYyLn+5kfDQv+/L/qro/vdep/qerqs=; b=Eez+ny68g88B192QUcuMfkPd+x99kP4Gg4M8XWD4Knu5e1fomsWAMyOCeQStbPjTlT ZY1XJw1lknOY16MlSpL1Sys9/wymCq2UBw9zPLRDaNW/ko4AXhwGghmwW9fKrC/+54iA 5vyKm5y02XJyIATqvq3mYhbbkqGZzH997L2TUnmjwm38Qm6hJFj+NLBqT8RAcSE5eKv7 AKJr8ZqBcGzj+Nyn6ZA3223xMGAlqa7ybGfzFF4lGQbEp1cIpZNHE+fOyow7QkaFq2gA +hMwOCtPrvYBtjA1FtLAXG2N9fmvS7qTToCBia/90mvikiUFYCw54/zLe5KwSi5xhSPA v6Bg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693757864; x=1694362664; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bTudVn7idWjnfaYyLn+5kfDQv+/L/qro/vdep/qerqs=; b=ZZInv42LbLmQLb8FuQgycbmjeZaptC/3GKqaOvrX9O2t/rWdd36FfrEdGSRUcRVzRB oTdcVpI8Zvi7/WsiX7kBE1vgwh8fy2TcuDBvhAqau7Jclg3LonU+MmbzH9BQB9EA0TBZ tnWPrBa8QNmixK+tYC432MZPWzUBa0OvB46HTYJn9HPRz36cJoMW0Dpheq85XUaTHtRD EtllANQnntO3GaWJuvqFra/NxMyPvnUuHtol4cUzTq5zmzlpt0wPL5K41yi5fAvOVbrm O/ovN2C/hvwh+o9GIeqCt1pVn1cykVYX5RlEtsYNiZwl0u1x3uG0werMEYB5AWoPKNQF RkIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyrVawk78n++0zQSTPkCkZwRSai3wyU1bi8T1bSDoqHuSnbLaHr CEpu+VZfnoyfRtmdOObRqnOXGdZ7pKUaHqs7WEI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH7LjIlirEeSzqtrCZcRScz8b+usTpkVpEZGu/VAAoO0OfRCdl16l6AZ5sm0Ejcet/qBU7YTcOWrc6tk1mmGu8= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:48a1:0:b0:4ff:8f12:c4d7 with SMTP id u1-20020ac248a1000000b004ff8f12c4d7mr4398116lfg.31.1693757864386; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 09:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 3 Sep 2023 09:17:43 -0700 In-Reply-To: <8bf9ac13-d620-4b5c-8e03-de21c4d85506@app.fastmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::136; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310001 Archived-At: "Bozhidar Batsov" writes: > Other than the contributor agreement there's development overhead to consider: Thanks, I found your list of concerns interesting. > - where are issues reported? I don't want to use the Emacs issue > tracker, but that'd be unavoidable for something built-in, so instead > of having one issue tracker you end up with two (one of which I really > dislike) > - some patches will be submitted on GitHub, some on emacs-devel - I > highly doubt that all the clojure-mode maintainers would be willing to > deal with this These concerns are valid, but disproportionate. Most users will not want to send email, and are a million times more likely to go to GitHub and follow the workflow they are used to there. With a package like Org-mode, we only have the occasional bug come to the bug list or emacs-devel, and in short order someone will point them in the right direction. But users normally follow the instructions given to them by the org developers, and send it directly to their list. Even with use-package, a package that was merged into core and where we plan to deprecate and eventually archive the GitHub page, more discussion, issues, and even PRs end up on GitHub. Basically, the position is that for GNU ELPA packages, we *accept* bugs in the bug tracker, but we don't necessarily encourage it. From our point of view, we are usually much happier if the bugs go to the maintainers directly, as they are in the best position to resolve them. > - discussions related to problems/ideas would be happening in > different places This will only very occasionally be true, but mostly it will be as above: expect 99 % of relevant discussions in your preferred forum. The exceptions will be, for the most part, when Emacs developers need to ask you something over email, or point some wayward users in your direction. > - there's also so overhead of keeping the GitHub repo and the code in Emacs in sync That's true. In practice, you could do this one or two times a year, or even once before every release, and nothing bad would happen. Some packages merge much less frequently too, but that's not ideal for obvious reasons.