From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On Contributing To Emacs Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 06:20:03 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87k0fn8od1.fsf@gnus.org> <83y242ip0a.fsf@gnu.org> <87ilv6nzk5.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10403"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Akira Kyle , emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, rms@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 30 12:22:06 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n2tVW-0002aN-7I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:22:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55520 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2tVU-0001UN-VN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 06:22:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37880) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2tTf-00082Y-JQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 06:20:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c] (port=39543 helo=mail-pf1-x42c.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2tTc-00061w-44; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 06:20:10 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id s15so21143514pfk.6; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 03:20:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ObkX2/GBqdW7seWhOo0G92ZXgaErljJAcvXNlk49Hhk=; b=Cb/Y1udJd8EpWXn48D2xUCJDZy/V2XWYJ3sv6el2C2OfBHxb+dFKm9HqMazBrrjcRY xHqceQksAusQ3xD8S+79UmFeMsqf/dpkceXnN6Ikmhl8TjphGJwQ8yARGk7/C0/m0BKt DrzMBu2heFF8xkGafMcZaQuN94+VyNDJrkSti06KYB0MFa+TPjUzpafHeJcT/EoS80Xb P+RoNhBeXsLf/qHZj/7zosN9S+m7ER1GGa8FFV9KuLwJWjxnLG3QQQz2qJZ5LOX+KtuI i1WOESYlcckuEGzKSuheaKIi9eqKp9FshQ9cGPoXte7KEGGIR2hRTQfI1VXupv0K8jPY it8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ObkX2/GBqdW7seWhOo0G92ZXgaErljJAcvXNlk49Hhk=; b=t6obC3bBuYwEXXeBmtIEVH+1MeKtD4fVduqYKlNL4s4Pq+otWWWkfePQGujSyq7/u0 fHZWi6+dGgqXWkH1Q9cpLyfbxLmX5vHh/E1rCEcDw5j9nUIDOb86Z0NEDBQajfZIuqrF AiPHstQyxHq+IaWqFA4KUIsTh31VC3RIayyy6PoPSIVezjGTOAUPV8iATwZqSRzG/HAr ZzQINMHTDqIDvxKQo8U1PQmSM6dim/FMfNFiVwkWMTswu2Pe38cURQFh7qEIg4qQzlnJ uSCCZ/IvLb9qgsyb73BXwXLJTGG85AgEGNOnfhG82PURNCn4ePSpqFVF9jsaKH0zqvN5 gI9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532kmwkbkjKSK4IOwHoGglmqIn6qYu91ShhT8u0eFrYBSNCGEB/0 E3GGUaPTq+4JQtyY7f90nDdrEYzAF4+RxGiWfHg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz+GIXxPNJlFltYMDh1XF5UFhv+8ua1OYDbMH/lxWwu43NzuhfAYsOcnHpvuI/2WZQFlsXe7J0W04l5z8cNqlQ= X-Received: by 2002:a63:4b42:: with SMTP id k2mr26987725pgl.591.1640863204523; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 03:20:04 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 06:20:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87ilv6nzk5.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x42c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 6 X-Spam_score: 0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.6 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283644 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > You and I are not lawyers, so I don't think we're qualified to make > statements against those of trained professionals. I think that this oft-repeated argument is based on some important misunderstandings. We will do well to listen to what trained professionals think about the legal aspects of this, of course. But first, I think it is important to note that this is *not* clear-cut. Siddhesh Poyarekar made this point on the Glibc mailing list this summer: Lawyers are not a collective, IP lawyers, less so. I have spoken to and listened to multiple legal experts over the years to get their opinion on the subject and in my experience the opinion is quite divided and definitely more nuanced than A > B. I made that conclusion for myself based on those opinions. https://sourceware.org/pipermail/libc-alpha/2021-June/128083.html Second, it is also important to note that lawyers have no formal expertise in how free software projects work or should best be managed. They have no expertise in assessing the significant drawbacks that this brings to a free software project, and how that should be weighed against the legal advantages they perceive (or not) with having a copyright assignment. See here for more: https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2014/jun/09/do-not-need-cla/