From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Elias_M=C3=A5rtenson?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Help needed: APL reference documentation in ELPA Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 00:22:49 +0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11340950b44bd004fa3bdf9d X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1401034984 27290 80.91.229.3 (25 May 2014 16:23:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 16:23:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 25 18:23:00 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WobCN-0006f9-GX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 18:22:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52035 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WobCN-0004FV-1P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 12:22:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WobCJ-0004EO-8Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 12:22:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WobCH-000655-GW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 12:22:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-la0-x22d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d]:34812) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WobCF-00064d-8F; Sun, 25 May 2014 12:22:51 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-la0-f45.google.com with SMTP id gl10so5285394lab.4 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:22:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GLE7ac7GyLjuK8hw/5TYBWXs1Pnh+9pBD0L4EYdL3GI=; b=owxpV8k0OA7w2bf2SUuA4Q7V+rkKiREN1nW9fNETQjpAqCCQux0Hvl/nY/ueTl7PNt eqhTJ8IE6m5OQ2NuqtFfaau0QVyotUcmUedg8MoBUEuS8LZULPsQE/ituqc6jVCNDKUU vMhlzfpEeRtTlcoMoTQsgH6NtW+mt3DPUdBDU7eTJLhfWZspx3AroHMRyOPwQiX0h7qI 8MJgo8GecMfSCI/IuodetnfBmu5XkcMrHff78BFXB0qSHffzhNLCiLgZ3maTXGpqw26R NblRVPTE5bSqGTTu4SsD7Dz66+54XZABgNgzYaOcoFEGq2droT73UQKRJ/SKRoYzpT+N vNbA== X-Received: by 10.152.242.164 with SMTP id wr4mr13612196lac.38.1401034969989; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.112.167.137 with HTTP; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:22:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:172081 Archived-At: --001a11340950b44bd004fa3bdf9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (In this mail, "gnu-apl-mode" refers to the Emacs mode that I have built, which "GNU APL" refers to the GNU product of the same name). The Emacs mode has support for searching and automatically displaying documentation (it also integrates with Eldoc). There is code in there to detect whether the function is used in a monadic or dyadic context and instructs Eldoc to pop up the correct documentation. I fully agree with you that the documentation really doesn't belong in the gnu-apl-mode itself. It really belongs in GNU APL. That said, no matter where the documentation can be found, it needs to be in some machine-readable form so that gnu-apl-mode is able to access it. As for IBM's documentation, I approached them and asked if they were willing to license the reference documentation in a form appropriate for this project. They did give me a license to use it, but that license is tied to gnu-apl-mode. This is the reason I would like to replace it with something that is GPL compatible. Since I had the license to use it, I did put it in there, but as soon as this thing goes into ELPA, it will have to be removed. Since I'm now close to actually doing this, I felt it was time to try once again to get help with the documentation. Finally, I have worked very closely with J=C3=BCrgen who is the maintainer = of GNU APL. I don't think he's opposed to including documentation in the GNU APL package (as opposed to gnu-apl-mode) but including the IBM documentation is obviously out of the question. In summary: Yes, the documentation belongs in GNU APL proper. And if free documentation can be produced, it will most likely be included in GNU APL itself, with gnu-apl-mode simply accessing it. Regards, Elias On 26 May 2014 00:03, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I have one concern, and that is the fact that it currently includes > reference documentation that was taken from the IBM APL2 > documentation. I > have a license to use this from IBM, but the license is only for this > specific project, which obviously is incompatible with the Emacs > license. > > Are you planning to include a manual for APL in GNU Emacs? > I don't think that makes sense. We don't include a C manual in Emacs. > > I think it is better to distribute APL documentation separately. > > _How_ does IBM permit you to use that material? Are you distributing > it under a free license? What license does IBM say you can or must use? > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation > 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 > USA > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. > > --001a11340950b44bd004fa3bdf9d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(In this mail, "gnu-apl-mode" refers to the= Emacs mode that I have built, which "GNU APL" refers to the GNU = product of the same name).

The Emacs mode has support f= or searching and automatically displaying documentation (it also integrates= with Eldoc). There is code in there to detect whether the function is used= in a monadic or dyadic context and instructs Eldoc to pop up the correct d= ocumentation.

I fully agree with you that the documentation really doesn&#= 39;t belong in the gnu-apl-mode itself. It really belongs in GNU APL. That = said, no matter where the documentation can be found, it needs to be in som= e machine-readable form so that gnu-apl-mode is able to access it.

As for IBM's documentation, I approached them and a= sked if they were willing to license the reference documentation in a form = appropriate for this project. They did give me a license to use it, but tha= t license is tied to gnu-apl-mode. This is the reason I would like to repla= ce it with something that is GPL compatible.

Since I had the license to use it, I did put it in ther= e, but as soon as this thing goes into ELPA, it will have to be removed. Si= nce I'm now close to actually doing this, I felt it was time to try onc= e again to get help with the documentation.

Finally, I have worked very closely with J=C3=BCrgen wh= o is the maintainer of GNU APL. I don't think he's opposed to inclu= ding documentation in the GNU APL package (as opposed to gnu-apl-mode) but = including the IBM documentation is obviously out of the question.

In summary: Yes, the documentation belongs in GNU APL p= roper. And if free documentation can be produced, it will most likely be in= cluded in GNU APL itself, with gnu-apl-mode simply accessing it.

Regards,
Elias


On 26 May 2014 00:03, Richard Stallma= n <rm= s@gnu.org> wrote:
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my ema= il: please consider =C2=A0 =C2=A0]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have one concern, and that is the fact that it currently in= cludes
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 reference documentation that was taken from the IBM APL2 docu= mentation. I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 have a license to use this from IBM, but the license is only = for this
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specific project, which obviously is incompatible with the Em= acs license.

Are you planning to include a manual for APL in GNU Emacs?
I don't think that makes sense. =C2=A0We don't include a C manual i= n Emacs.

I think it is better to distribute APL documentation separately.

_How_ does IBM permit you to use that material? =C2=A0Are you distributing<= br> it under a free license? =C2=A0What license does IBM say you can or must us= e?

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org =C2=A0www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
=C2=A0 Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.


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