From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: James Fuller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 13:16:18 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87mw72lyzs.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <20141205190925.GA5067@thyrsus.com> <83h9x93leo.fsf@gnu.org> <20141205205320.GA7237@thyrsus.com> <838uil3eam.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11354d201fe71f05098b2901 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417868211 17395 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 12:16:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 12:16:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 13:16:46 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxEHy-0001mO-UZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:16:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54200 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxEHy-0005o2-G3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 07:16:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57520) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxEHh-0005nb-4n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 07:16:26 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxEHf-0005qq-Po for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 07:16:25 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qc0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c01::234]:55476) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxEHb-0005pJ-SW; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 07:16:19 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id i8so1728944qcq.11 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 04:16:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=qWJI4mb/PbOIl4TePwzw6eGfelqaUg8CwjfjCGuvR+A=; b=ueEf72pdVCKwaFRGLE6Cm+htBWAtpTm008T9gDX9vunRRHSOt45ldDaeA4Vff6C/ti LoAWlBHcC2nRBJHMwVlyW7LAr8Nikn3RmEiIIURV4/IsA5e8M8hPKDSfYCg2L92HhtEW 9QPDbAuozhVf8r8YjPL2Dv9QdKh3XHviCLq3Q+rR9iXr9RkCyHmsdhko7Kow9X8d6wbE kSVzqQlDnBG7Zl6VeUVVmSRQdvhomC0STfpwfM9YdTbXzDpfx7MI6xm2H2LsEfDl38QB IRR2mrUp6J1WWSJ8h8m7iH//kXvJFxqbDvtv6hIri7F+3moe0/a/XTWICDsWWyBPlnzC K4eg== X-Received: by 10.140.18.240 with SMTP id 103mr33605921qgf.1.1417868178611; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 04:16:18 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.229.240.137 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 04:16:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179166 Archived-At: --001a11354d201fe71f05098b2901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 long time lurker/user, balancing off what works for a 'long time' versus being relevant to new contributors is a tough one ... though I thoroughly agree with the spirit of Eric's thinking. a bit of TMTOWDI thinking ... why not have 1+n documentation formats ? let those formats wither that do not get adopted and avoid having the 'one true' format discussion. of course, there are engineering compromises, though it sounds like a fun problem to work out. Jim Fuller On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Both of you are takig a harsh tone in these messages. If anything > will drive people away from contributing, it is that. > > Please, both of you, and everyone, take the aggression out of your > arguments. > > > > Eli Zaretskii : > > > > Because Texinfo is a barrier in itself, full of ceremony and > heavyweight > > > > markup. > > > > > > Nonsense. > > > > You have Texinfo markup in your fingertips. So do I. The difference > > is, I can perform the cognitive distancing act required to see how it > > looks to newbies. Apparently you can't. > > Apparently, there are no technical arguments left in your arsenal (if > there were any to begin with), so you are down to ad hominem. Shame > on you! > > > > > The state of the art has moved well past it - modern formats like > > > > asciidoc (or perhaps even org - others may be right about that) are > > > > both lighter and more powerful. > > > > > > How about showing those advantages, instead of throwing > > > unsubstantiated FAD? > > > > Sure. Go look at the asciidoc masters in the Linux or git source trees. > > How typical. See above. > > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation > 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 > USA > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. > > > --001a11354d201fe71f05098b2901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
long time lurker/user,=C2=A0

balancing = off what works for a 'long time' versus being relevant to new contr= ibutors is a tough one ... though I thoroughly agree with the spirit of Eri= c's thinking.

a bit of TMTOWDI thinking ... wh= y not have 1+n documentation formats ?

let tho= se formats wither that do not get adopted and avoid having the 'one tru= e' format discussion.

of course, there are eng= ineering compromises, though it sounds like a fun problem to work out.

Jim Fuller



On S= at, Dec 6, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:=
[[[ To any NSA and FBI = agents reading my email: please consider=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>
Both of you are takig a harsh tone in these messages.=C2=A0 If anyth= ing
will drive people away from contributing, it is that.

Please, both of you, and everyone, take the aggression out of your
arguments.


> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>= :
> > > Because Texinfo is a barrier in itself, full of ceremony and= heavyweight
> > > markup.
> >
> > Nonsense.
>
> You have Texinfo markup in your fingertips.=C2=A0 So do I.=C2=A0 The d= ifference
> is, I can perform the cognitive distancing act required to see how it<= br> > looks to newbies.=C2=A0 Apparently you can't.

Apparently, there are no technical arguments left in your arsenal (if
there were any to begin with), so you are down to ad hominem.=C2=A0 Shame on you!

> > > The state of the art has moved well past it - modern formats= like
> > > asciidoc (or perhaps even org - others may be right about th= at) are
> > > both lighter and more powerful.
> >
> > How about showing those advantages, instead of throwing
> > unsubstantiated FAD?
>
> Sure.=C2=A0 Go look at the asciidoc masters in the Linux or git source= trees.

How typical.=C2=A0 See above.


--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org=C2=A0 www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
=C2=A0 Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.



--001a11354d201fe71f05098b2901--