From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eduardo Ochs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: An anonymous IRC user's opinion Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2024 13:25:25 -0300 Message-ID: References: <19ed5fa4ec0d3be9cfddc92ce2c78e47f2a3efb6.camel@octave.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26586"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs development discussions To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jordi_Guti=C3=A9rrez_Hermoso?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 04 18:26:20 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1swl8G-0006fJ-6O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2024 18:26:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1swl7f-0002Px-Oz; Fri, 04 Oct 2024 12:25:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1swl7d-0002Pn-Qw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2024 12:25:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yw1-x1136.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1136]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1swl7c-0004oZ-4B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2024 12:25:41 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yw1-x1136.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6db836c6bd7so22390827b3.3 for ; Fri, 04 Oct 2024 09:25:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1728059138; x=1728663938; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Fs+yslEiR3SPOqlpU9ttY1MOZgh8ivhbQQVaCVMWfYc=; b=J8Yjl7rRDv0whjJrhmbm0PvBo9al5cumPeDxSe1m99JunpprOAluiAseOvRbycuoHG 7JI/eUOYleDuyMfrdo35/nGEn0C3F3ZJkCLVX99V1zGMIg2uKtFhfY9pUjZzhWZNkEPQ iAVpwU9pUKqjgOCIUGyvLg2V4TmMeM1Q5OW0cTiXxcOQ6ldL24QlDLPvCS3srd895YQI 4oicNOBVioyU7UhPrjcjvdrK/Z5JBeAuDI3rEft683ivx3V6NpwHnWNSNwxAXU0LXDGC dgwXjy20Y90soy01V1Ynu/i9WZrrRe6c4M7OCPE2vnzwTZBkQvnAKBmQudseZcHmv564 4rOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1728059138; x=1728663938; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Fs+yslEiR3SPOqlpU9ttY1MOZgh8ivhbQQVaCVMWfYc=; b=wQpvJA7C9381vcV9vX6rm+IeW+tyFp9JtWwSZlcxg3rMxEL0flM/7vl1H9R5weJlZl m2fRC3Pybfg8Ofs8DGsQTQ2Im9nsemunF1XBSt4O9kFAyKR3OXpdOs/Y7bxwySDJjqhF cU2LaMj5wr1uIHdSXaTgfm9Os+QykuNjqbgOg3VR679MGjgBDpY7PddEZrU4Xpu+oDxW Aezv8v8ceQ6j4uGNvw8bnjGiuRV8QPv0WDU0TIxBWWS1SKlgNzhDzBQ+kw/Q//OTQrJz iVyu9daEPwqziSvLuwuMyKGrqcxnTRdJ28SEwf9zUOgvZLQ0f5pMEMFJGRyxlwiV3nSy 34Jg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxyTlXyC7J5YCXHCI9sRvHpwOeJHCMib4EEd6fVtUUOreS7rFpP TUTcyQ9RilvtRbeSiHz+72I54tvtp78Vs4rTvKEGjbWkVvJbasOL3y0WNM5Mg2CaoPeBKplktPe ujQbosbDnP1XPWcN8pwxJ28XpabT/u6ys X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF8+zhE81+7GLB1F+NNfycZymx+wOw3M5wJHILE5xOyudRg22dZ+cWq3tgLCnjDo8i5gboATP0eWLkvJAi/pEw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:d8d:b0:6e2:1336:55d8 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6e2c6ff029amr36560177b3.10.1728059138511; Fri, 04 Oct 2024 09:25:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19ed5fa4ec0d3be9cfddc92ce2c78e47f2a3efb6.camel@octave.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1136; envelope-from=eduardoochs@gmail.com; helo=mail-yw1-x1136.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:324317 Archived-At: On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 at 02:41, Jordi Guti=C3=A9rrez Hermoso wrote: > > I was asked to relay this from an anonymous IRC user. The words below are= not > mine. I, Jordi, did not write this. Someone wanted to post this anonymous= ly to > emacs-devel, and I'm doing it on their behalf. > (...) Hi Jordi, Anynomous, and all, my problem with Anonymous's proposal - here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2024-10/msg00018.html is that I don't know how it would be developed and what its prototypes would look like... Suppose that we develop a small script that would change startup.el to add a button that would open a beginner's page in Org that would initially have, say, only two lines of text and Org links with "elisp:" actions. Would Anonymous be willing to a) run that script on his/her/their machine? And b) then run that script on some friend's machines to see if they find that button too hard to find and too hard to click on? Let me write "A+Fs" for "Anonymous plus friends", "Chiyaab button" for the button in the startup page that says "Click here if you are a beginner", and "Beginners page" for the page that that button points to. I am especially interested in the "degree of pollution(*)" of elisp code. I know that for some people having something like this in a tutorial, To understand what is the init file click on _this button_, or, equivalently, execute the elisp code below by moving the point to its line and typing C-e C-x C-e: (info "(emacs)Init file") ...makes that tutorial completely unsuitable for beginners - and I would like to know how numerous these people are, and learn more about how they think. Cheers, Eduardo Ochs http://anggtwu.net/eepitch.html http://anggtwu.net/#eev (*): I was rereading Judith Butler's "Gender Trouble" some time ago, and it has this quote, taken from Mary Douglas's "Purity and Danger": ...pollution powers which inhere in the structure of ideas itself and which punish a symbolic breaking of that which should be joined or joining of that which should be separate. It follows from this that pollution is a type of danger which is not likely to occur except where the lines of structure, cosmic or social, are clearly defined. A polluting person is always in the wrong. He [sic] has developed some wrong condition or simply crossed over some line which should not have been crossed and this displacement unleashes danger for someone.