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From: Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 07:09:28 -0300
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On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 at 06:49, Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:

> xenodasein--- via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> writes:
>
> > Basically Custom is an unfinished system, it's code is not easy to
> > understand, and it does not integrate with the rest of Emacs well, it
> > especially does not play well with configuring things from init.el
> > file.
>
> Custom is basically a finished system, and the whole point of it is to
> make things work so that users will not have to understand it.
>
> And contrary to your statements, it integrates with the rest of Emacs
> quite well.  For example, this doesn't work:
>
>   (setq pixel-scroll-precision-mode t)
>
> But this does:
>
>   (custom-set-variables '(pixel-scroll-precision-mode t))
>
> Same goes for `scroll-bar-mode', and so on.
>
>
 Where is that documented?

I don't understand customize and I know a few other people from the
#emacs IRC channel who are also long time Emacs users and who also say
that they don't understand customize well enough...

A few weeks ago I made a video - called "Org for non users" - about
why I find some parts of Emacs that are "for users" very hard to
understand, and showing how I am trying to make them more
understandable by "non users" like me... and I would really like to do
something similar for customize in the next few years.

The video is here:
  http://angg.twu.net/2021-org-for-non-users.html

Cheers,
  Eduardo

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 at 06:49, Po Lu &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:luangruo@yahoo.com">luangruo@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex">xenodasein--- via &quot;Emacs development discussions.&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org" target=3D"_blank">emacs-devel@gnu.org</a=
>&gt;<br>
writes:<br>
<br>
&gt; Basically Custom is an unfinished system, it&#39;s code is not easy to=
<br>
&gt; understand, and it does not integrate with the rest of Emacs well, it<=
br>
&gt; especially does not play well with configuring things from init.el<br>
&gt; file.<br>
<br>
Custom is basically a finished system, and the whole point of it is to<br>
make things work so that users will not have to understand it.<br>
<br>
And contrary to your statements, it integrates with the rest of Emacs<br>
quite well.=C2=A0 For example, this doesn&#39;t work:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 (setq pixel-scroll-precision-mode t)<br>
<br>
But this does:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 (custom-set-variables &#39;(pixel-scroll-precision-mode t))<br>
<br>
Same goes for `scroll-bar-mode&#39;, and so on.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0Where is that documented?</div><=
br>I don&#39;t understand customize and I know a few other people from the<=
br>#emacs IRC channel who are also long time Emacs users and who also say<b=
r>that they don&#39;t understand customize well enough...<br><br>A few week=
s ago I made a video - called &quot;Org for non users&quot; - about<br>why =
I find some parts of Emacs that are &quot;for users&quot; very hard to<br>u=
nderstand, and showing how I am trying to make them more<br>understandable =
by &quot;non users&quot; like me... and I would really like to do<br>someth=
ing similar for customize in the next few years.<br><br>The video is here:<=
br>=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://angg.twu.net/2021-org-for-non-users.html">http:=
//angg.twu.net/2021-org-for-non-users.html</a><br><br>Cheers,<br>=C2=A0 Edu=
ardo<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div></div>

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