From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Bob Newell Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 07:32:50 -1000 Message-ID: References: <8wXYP4GY9hwW-9mYv6_LGMETZ8Vz3Ob1Bec6yh6kPT7yxjTkxA3V6dXY4ELra9tYiJUxJmgXKSIEX4w8HFiPRoeGVSQHDSoBVy1voj1e3Qo=@protonmail.com> <83y2qwdmnd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="75838"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 16 19:34:14 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jP8Oz-000JdN-S4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 19:34:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37498 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jP8Oy-0005jf-To for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 13:34:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38144) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jP8Nr-0004kX-VE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 13:33:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jP8Nr-000243-1W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 13:33:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x333.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::333]:38583) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jP8Nq-00023U-MB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 13:33:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x333.google.com with SMTP id k21so3755644otl.5 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bobnewell-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Bpo18/r7gVacjfcu0lDKfba4giF+OyKATGLbMVJLpZ0=; b=KvLEvs1tZYP+w9GIALJD3nHlhSvno9z7qtKa64bNYaWGZ+ysXKHkVigpXr/ncrU5q2 GawZJThS/EQ3vrEK0Haf4q6tWP7/TLU8wTk7o7kQ7sF90knPs9Rvi+s+iqSkMO3+qbGX P1aAJbO1TVdSW+cLRG2AjqH6UTWFZtDBV3hNfekaYcdR9GDJ4KZj5UYMwfJC5ipY35Tm j0RiT3Klj2jKsdIsx9Pn1GjoevVAcfSkUj+ISDgySDIpITd66aX6PHX8XLey/JlsVkhI 43GrOdGNA30w7/1vR/m8p+zpmfByBIhw4h8tUW0ObhLM3He4/dV6kaWHmEVgme+AyfsF W7dA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Bpo18/r7gVacjfcu0lDKfba4giF+OyKATGLbMVJLpZ0=; b=bjLiIBU86a+PIwYrjuDcNGjS8GyOsfmyAnGccOn5325W85EV7qPWIJCvGSo0EGNu+M 1C/rvZOmFpI1Etfvkt5caN7gJF6hQKPRYQ7gen0XzsaEp5EASC34Qz4jNZ28W5W2jBPM Do6g3CVrzFUDDii11akc55HezNqJHE5cuP2jvsz1CHtevujL946sk1NSyIZ/7vUy9pqO Kcr5FqUSBhI8xOUh8RhdsbhF/LmHBGWdhPem98fszqh5s0UZcjS7afsTwElRiHjrc5nB ya0YLfW9LctUSWtQaxfRWzn3RWYII2ojAB6s0tyQ4BWdonyonZtNEeru7pL4aTz136V6 zQAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubfOgdLiEHms34RBVJyXRIbs+65vJJteIAu/Nm95Y9SNkW6+hlW 1LSXhjerDnI7RDVW3Q5ee8ezieVs0rGIU0wCkCKPJ1XxZV8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLbRjukvnQDbCZ+Y0u9/ZHJGtwmDZmPc7pCdGwr1SKCKRa6J3WjUo0liQnYKc34Od2uQmRHqKNRHWDyOsIvcRY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1da1:: with SMTP id z1mr4213663oti.58.1587058381044; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:33:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83y2qwdmnd.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::333 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247107 Archived-At: > I don't really know the answer, but I'd like to remind all of us that > there's a lot of "propaganda" out there telling everyone to turn off > GUI features such as the menu bar and the tool bar. The network is > full of personal init files that "proudly" do that, and forums like > Reddit are full of such advice to every newbie who asks about > configuring their Emacs. Well, I certainly turn all that stuff off, but I've been using Emacs for decades, and I'm comfortable enough now (and I also use Helm). In earlier days I definitely made good use of the toolbar and menus. They were not especially pretty (that didn't concern me), but they helped me learn much more quickly. I would, however, /never/ recommend to a newbie to turn off the menu bar etc. You should only get to Emacs "minimalism" (a) after a long enough time to be quite comfortable and (b) if it suits your style of work. -- Bob Newell Honolulu, Hawai`i Via Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB.