From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Per_Starb=C3=A4ck?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ASCII-only startup message? Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:05:48 +0100 Message-ID: References: <567ECD8C.1070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360zlhy7x.fsf@gnu.org> <567EE043.9020109@cs.ucla.edu> <83y4chgh5q.fsf@gnu.org> <567EED47.1090700@cs.ucla.edu> <83si2pgci8.fsf@gnu.org> <567F22B1.9040702@cs.ucla.edu> <2dc99848-b6d5-4f53-b22c-66e29d15647c@default> <444c19cb-4687-41c4-8291-481f5b5a42a1@default> <9e93866e-c6a4-42e3-b8b2-70fd6185b25e@default> <7294941d-a7c4-469c-9203-7949b2e34f0b@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451282771 31248 80.91.229.3 (28 Dec 2015 06:06:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 06:06:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 28 07:06:06 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aDQwW-0007mY-Lq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:06:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43709 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDQwV-0008P8-PZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:06:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36053) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDQwH-0008Oy-Ms for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:05:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDQwG-0001rJ-Tl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:05:49 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-vk0-x229.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::229]:34163) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDQwG-0001rF-Po for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:05:48 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-x229.google.com with SMTP id a123so16508174vkh.1 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:05:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=fSEKOyhN6uwNNZ1wpyTXtSkpL2WHO4PBB6Xk2g4e2Ps=; b=zpvOGYx9LOYGzIZTBO/JE+75HfpyEJqqCW1yLv31xVNkbCN7vYpf0Jw99cBEcR+Krm yXMGZjJvgMDU1weQk5i5ud7PUiBzZykNd39riBuEGvREPeNjlESnFb1vZLXSV7RP3b7o We12rC5gxSHx61dt4aj95jUETtrPj9DbYb5f/QvSukvS1RB7OeUStqS6naMCuFY7iM8x rl9c8op3n7TnUaxSQV65IbOx3YMPBn2aD5QbQ1hOylqFAYOFAlB36mtGS2c8+7zQCW1/ 2B1GfhM3GfLfxzHtPyH5VMm870or/xURQkw17ag/ScQi/5638nDvm5FqXBvEn7gjxO+9 CbHw== X-Received: by 10.31.52.147 with SMTP id b141mr27291919vka.82.1451282748392; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:05:48 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.31.15.134 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:05:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7294941d-a7c4-469c-9203-7949b2e34f0b@default> X-Google-Sender-Auth: uOyfSG893zsLaOy6Mro-fT4t5FE X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400c:c05::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196995 Archived-At: >> And yes, there are some people who think that the squiggle used as >> apostrophe and as right-single-quotation should be seen as two >> different characters depending on usage. > > The basic argument is this: an apostrophe is not a quotation > mark; their purposes/uses are different. [...] You say that you are not trying to reform Unicode, so let's not go over the arguments for reforming it again and who has suggested that on what mailing lists. Let's stick to what Unicode actually says. It is not unclear, and "right single quote" and "punctuation apostrophe" are never seen as different characters there. It is one character. What Unicode character should be used for that character? That depends. Unicode says "When text is set, U+2019 right single quotation mark is preferred as apostrophe". But we are not setting text. Should we stick to the overloaded ascii characters instead? There are arguments for that (you mention some, like "easier to use"). There has already been lots of discussion about this, and a decision has been made to use the typographical characters in some places. > No one suggested otherwise. The question raised was whether > a right curly quote mark should be used in *scratch* as > apostrophe. I don't see how "... as apostrophe" is important here, since it is the same character. Then the question is just "Should curly quote marks be used there?" I can see arguments for or against that, and am not entering that discussion. I just want to make sure Emacs doesn't create its own division between apostrophes and right single quotes and displays texts where those look different.