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From: "Per Starbäck" <per.starback@gmail.com>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>,
	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:30:28 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADkQgvuAdJEM8siag322fcPpBm_btXkHugOSJUSMmoMVhTNryQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1aVNDU-0007P3-8k@fencepost.gnu.org>

>   > I've mentioned several times yet that, for someone who was educated on
>   > Spanish, searching for n and finding ñ is no different than searching
>   > for v and finding w.
>
> Whether searching for v should also find w is not a question of principle.
> It's a question of what is convenient for users.

Sure, we can avoid formulating principles that explain the
regularities in what is convenient or not, but then it's also a
question of *how much* inconvenient it is. Having a search for "i"
also find "j" would for most users be very inconvenient, to the point
that it would be seen as a bug. But for someone using classical Latin
it could be convenient.

Even *if* classical Latin was really big today that search behaviour
would still be seen as a bug by those using for example English. If
60% used classical Latin and 40% used English we shouldn't just count
the numbers and conclude that the i/j search thing would be a good
thing to activate by default. Something seen as a glaring bug must
weigh more than just convenience.

###   Searching for "n" and finding "ñ" in Spanish, or searching for
"a" and finding "ä" in Swedish
###   are just as strange as searching for "i" and finding "j" in English.

It's as if many people on this list just won't believe that statement,
which is very frustrating.  It feels a bit like reporting that a
particular feature that is useful otherwise makes the computer explode
if you use it in Utah or Nevada and getting the answer that a recent
count concluded that the feature is convenient for most users.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-02-16 14:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 263+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-02-09 17:26 On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 17:39 ` Pierpaolo Bernardi
2016-02-09 17:54   ` Paul Eggert
2016-02-10  0:49     ` Pierpaolo Bernardi
2016-02-10  2:20       ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-10  3:01         ` Pierpaolo Bernardi
2016-02-10  9:55           ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-10 18:12             ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-10 19:23               ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 17:48 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-09 16:43   ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 17:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-09 17:10   ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 18:21 ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-09 19:54   ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 20:08     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-10  1:58       ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 21:07     ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-10  2:18       ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-10  2:52         ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-10  2:56         ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-10 15:25         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-10 21:17           ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-11  3:39             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12 22:36           ` Per Starbäck
2016-02-13  8:33             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 10:10               ` Markus Triska
2016-02-13 10:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 16:46           ` joakim
2016-02-11  0:54         ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-11  1:37           ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12  0:50             ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-12  1:50               ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12  7:10                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12  7:32                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12  8:44                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12 10:03                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12 11:11                         ` Joost Kremers
2016-02-12 18:21                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12 12:00                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12 18:42                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12 19:06                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12 19:28                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12 23:57                               ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-13  0:06                                 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-13  8:49                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 17:20                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-02-13 17:58                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18 19:15                                       ` John Wiegley
2016-02-18 20:12                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19  5:11                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-19  8:20                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19  9:22                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-19 10:09                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 10:51                                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-19 11:46                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 13:37                                                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-19 19:18                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-20  5:22                                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20  6:31                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-20  9:18                                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20 10:34                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21  2:51                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-21  6:28                                                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-21  8:14                                                                     ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-23 16:56                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21 10:05                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-21 11:01                                                                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-21 16:02                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22  1:58                                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-22  2:34                                                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-22  2:48                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-22  6:13                                                                               ` Werner LEMBERG
2016-02-22 18:03                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:27                                                                                   ` Werner LEMBERG
2016-02-22 18:01                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 19:06                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23 17:43                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23 18:14                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23 20:24                                                                                       ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-25 12:11                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-25 14:57                                                                                           ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-26 20:21                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-27  5:47                                                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-27 19:54                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-27 20:02                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27 20:05                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 10:25                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-28  6:06                                                                                                   ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-24 13:41                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-24 17:54                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-25 12:15                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-25 12:38                                                                                             ` Joost Kremers
2016-02-25 22:43                                                                                               ` John Wiegley
2016-02-25 22:48                                                                                                 ` John Wiegley
2016-02-26 18:13                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27  0:48                                                                                                   ` John Wiegley
2016-02-27  8:38                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27  8:58                                                                                                       ` John Wiegley
2016-02-27  9:30                                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27 16:22                                                                                                           ` Ken Brown
2016-02-27 22:48                                                                                                           ` John Wiegley
2016-02-28 15:57                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 16:59                                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2016-02-28 22:59                                                                                                                 ` John Wiegley
2016-02-29  0:22                                                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-02-29  0:31                                                                                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-29  3:45                                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27 19:53                                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-27 20:01                                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 10:24                                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-28 16:01                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <<E1aZyX5-0007bU-Mu@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <<83oab0ako0.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-02-28 17:00                                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2016-02-28 17:59                                                                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-28 18:04                                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 18:15                                                                                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-28 18:23                                                                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2016-02-28 18:46                                                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 18:22                                                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-02-28 18:58                                                                                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-24 13:41                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-24 17:56                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-25 12:15                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23 20:21                                                                                     ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-23 21:15                                                                                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-22 18:01                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:58                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23  1:30                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-23 17:46                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-24  1:50                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-24  6:40                                                                                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2016-02-24 13:43                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23  2:03                                                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-23 17:46                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22  3:38                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22  3:57                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-22 16:10                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22 18:58                                                                               ` John Wiegley
2016-02-23  7:50                                                                                 ` Per Starbäck
2016-02-23 16:29                                                                                   ` John Wiegley
2016-02-21 16:31                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21 16:58                                                                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-21 17:23                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21 18:48                                                                           ` Ivan Andrus
2016-02-22 15:58                                                                           ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2016-02-22 16:35                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22 16:56                                                                               ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2016-02-22 17:24                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22 17:59                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:57                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23 17:43                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23 18:03                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-24 13:41                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23 17:43                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]                                                                               ` <<E1aYGze-000655-RM@fencepost.gnu.org>
2016-02-23 18:00                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-22 17:59                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:51                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23  0:14                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-23 17:11                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-24  0:16                                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-24 18:39                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-25  0:29                                                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-25 16:24                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-29  0:22                                                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-29 16:27                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-29 23:40                                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2016-03-01 16:44                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-26 20:23                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-21 16:25                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22  1:56                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-22  9:20                                                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2016-02-23  1:46                                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-23  3:38                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21 12:44                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-21 16:05                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22 17:57                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:34                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-20  9:21                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-20 10:08                                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20 10:44                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 20:38                                                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-19 22:44                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-19 22:54                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-20  5:25                                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20 14:32                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-20 15:50                                                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-21 12:45                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-20  8:09                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-20 14:32                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-24 23:27                                                     ` Rasmus
2016-02-25 20:46                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-13 18:15                                     ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-13 18:26                                       ` Drew Adams
2016-02-12 19:09                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-12 19:39                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-13 15:32                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-13 15:40                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 16:58                           ` Andreas Schwab
2016-02-13 17:44                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 16:37                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 16:50                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 17:15                           ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 17:45                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 17:52                               ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 17:46                             ` andres.ramirez
2016-02-14 13:59                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-12 23:50                 ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-13  0:33                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-14 13:57                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-14 14:27                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-15 10:28                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-15 12:31                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-15 17:45                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-16 13:54                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-16 14:30                               ` Per Starbäck [this message]
2016-02-16 19:32                                 ` Ken Brown
2016-02-16 23:49                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-17 16:03                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-18  8:57                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-18 17:27                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 12:37                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-19 18:31                                         ` John Wiegley
2016-02-17  8:00                                 ` Joost Kremers
2016-02-17 15:34                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-17 18:30                                     ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-17 19:30                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-17 20:26                                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-17 20:06                                     ` Joost Kremers
2016-02-17 20:15                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-17 22:58                                         ` Ken Brown
2016-02-18  0:03                                           ` Vinicius Latorre
2016-02-18 17:29                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18  4:55                                           ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-18 11:26                                           ` Filipp Gunbin
2016-02-18 17:26                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 12:30                                               ` Filipp Gunbin
2016-02-19 15:22                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18 17:30                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-17 22:53                                     ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-18  0:11                                       ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-18  0:20                                         ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-18 17:28                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18  4:53                                         ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-18 17:07                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-18 17:21                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19  7:40                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-19 19:24                                                 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-20  5:05                                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20 13:59                                                     ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-19 20:47                                             ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-20 14:31                                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-18 17:46                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18 18:18                                         ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-18 18:24                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18 16:30                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-18 17:07                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 16:38                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 17:58                   ` Content navigation (was: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding) Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-13 16:32       ` On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 16:47         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 17:03           ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-10 13:52 ` Adrian.B.Robert
2016-02-24  9:58 ` Marcin Borkowski

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