From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nikolai Weibull Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ASCII-only startup message? Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 15:59:00 +0100 Message-ID: References: <567ECD8C.1070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360zlhy7x.fsf@gnu.org> <567EE043.9020109@cs.ucla.edu> <83y4chgh5q.fsf@gnu.org> <567EED47.1090700@cs.ucla.edu> <83si2pgci8.fsf@gnu.org> <567F22B1.9040702@cs.ucla.edu> <2dc99848-b6d5-4f53-b22c-66e29d15647c@default> <444c19cb-4687-41c4-8291-481f5b5a42a1@default> <9e93866e-c6a4-42e3-b8b2-70fd6185b25e@default> <7294941d-a7c4-469c-9203-7949b2e34f0b@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451314764 16757 80.91.229.3 (28 Dec 2015 14:59:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 14:59:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Nikolai Weibull , =?UTF-8?Q?Per_Starb=C3=A4ck?= , Emacs Developers To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 28 15:59:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aDZGT-0004BZ-0z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 15:59:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44793 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDZGS-0000xG-Ac for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:59:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60511) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDZGP-0000x9-5r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:59:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDZGK-0006Us-5Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:59:09 -0500 Original-Received: from disu.se ([71.19.156.204]:45921) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDZGJ-0006Un-Qg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:59:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lb0-f175.google.com (mail-lb0-f175.google.com [209.85.217.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by disu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 36B99BFB8 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 15:59:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disu.se; s=mail; t=1451314742; bh=T23qCHGD3pxM3sDW+x61ZsATGSfII5Uw5EYEru6lCwE=; h=In-Reply-To:References:Date:Subject:From:To:Cc:From; b=HRsoXx/03CDM0SeDpaMy7m5EasH9Tlk9Z61+JL76+BnAplfGyRBE4KXVzSQNg8myo o6JmY5AIUstKW58EMG10EEQ4LaF5Re6nacBWp+2KjyJ44NRJooJccNp+1elxPxOeGQ l0PxgunSsHXzt+PIjPU/vsRFH/JSjBtiRbDkZ3OE= Original-Received: by mail-lb0-f175.google.com with SMTP id oh2so92364831lbb.3 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 06:59:02 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.126.164 with SMTP id mz4mr10597906lbb.70.1451314740593; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 06:59:00 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.25.64.7 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 06:59:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.19.156.204 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197008 Archived-At: On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Drew Adams wrote: >> > Any evidence for your claim that ' is in Unicode only for >> > compatibility between "left single quotation mark" and "right >> > single quotation mark"? Do you think that is even the most >> > common use case for ' in old-fashioned plain text, whether >> > typewriter or computer? ", yes, but '? I don't think so. >> >> Given the English=E2=80=99 propensity to still not use contractions, but= to >> use single quotation marks when quoting, it=E2=80=99s not as clear cut a= s you >> suggest either. > > Sorry, but I don't know what that means, or how it relates to > what you quoted from me. Is there a propensity in English not > to use contractions? Maybe in some academic writing. Not in > general, to my knowledge. My point is that the English will use single quotes a lot more than Americans, given that they use them for the first level of quoting. As they also tend to shy away from contractions, in far more areas than academic writing, the factor between using the symbol we=E2=80=99re discussing as a quoting device and as a means of displaying contractions is also different. > Are you arguing that you think that ' has been used mainly for > quotation and not as an apostrophe? Perhaps in Britain, where > single quotation marks are apparently used at the top level, > but not in the US, is my guess. I think you will find relatively > few uses of single quotation marks in American English, and > relatively many uses of an apostrophe. But it's not an important > point. I=E2=80=99m not arguing anything. I just wanted to point out that what you said is not true across the board, even when considering the same language. > And I never said it was "clear cut" - I said "I don't > think so", and I _asked_ what Per thought. No, you asked, then you _told_ him what _you_ thought. There=E2=80=99s a rather large difference between the two in how I, as a reader, interpret what you wrote, so even if you intended to say what you said you intended, that=E2=80=99s not how a reader would understand it. I didn=E2=80=99t reply to create further reasons for argument in this threa= d, so I=E2=80=99m sorry if that=E2=80=99s been the result. I think the point = you=E2=80=99ve raised in regard to U+2019 not being an especially well chosen apostrophe is valid and that U+02BC was, perhaps, a better choice. In the end, they went with what was easier for software current at the time to handle, thus falling victim for the same sins that their forebears did. That said, continuing to use the worst of the three (U+0027) is not something that I agree with.