From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Radon Rosborough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:45:11 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <83wp5xat6i.fsf@gnu.org> <83pobk9aly.fsf@gnu.org> <837exs9603.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11402380aa9c5205578c9e3c" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503636383 14220 195.159.176.226 (25 Aug 2017 04:46:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 04:46:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 25 06:46:15 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dl6VO-0002c7-4w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 06:46:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51493 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl6VU-0008Lw-CR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:46:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52096) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl6VI-0008JX-RS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:45:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl6VI-0000eB-42 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:45:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]:37246) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl6VG-0000cf-2S; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:45:54 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id o188so5477171lff.4; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:45:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=P+6+o9nC0OrUTO6/y9wfB6sbRnnpjvRIX8fE8vsTQWE=; b=QGTy3qZcjSL72TMo1/904aCGtECfLZqbvwnqAjwIuLIVfMafPKYKZbU2RMXQ/BzwV+ G/wcN11lguuJFmIY7qGL83iZlamCGeZL9v8h5sPgom0AyKUP8v4EeySsRZOQBYRi/d3X 1N9KBYTkeC+S2x2sPJ1dYuFJYsTLPkkBlTrLt7/ggdqf1F+/H55AEvF6cjGLSeI/zVwU 8DsIqOxF8dJkmRLU75tebLsQw50+gUDmsUJQVbq3pypCIgJ4bhZjE7XOCXeMy2lWFnVV LlKPF295ItO6qfcUUFm0rcJY5ndX6CHFkH3Yvbjn+brh5HPqMOB62tlItLxVNwWFAUfF dr6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=P+6+o9nC0OrUTO6/y9wfB6sbRnnpjvRIX8fE8vsTQWE=; b=dwfwPPBiE75Bo2W7threQr1KnfKLJVcEkfx896uQd9A4fv7D5pVud2Z+WzwUc7Xzzj Na5L7136Ri1sJUhW5sjQRR6NDXTKMtkfFwLvFwOJHe049ZZcg4dNsWKhkZXL0WCdpHHU IE+hIGQ+aXTImxJ2hVbbCT6gokonjtjtvu6Bq1AIC9XApw4psD+HsznszP9G1lTJtiqk zBwZCbpiA1q/7e8kDfPqD2Bj36l+HsQ5TY5NRdVLfNnotnOjLDwfwol7yWDTrkX7K5E5 OvxHL3FLmdP/RcwtzsPWT7PshXnv9MU2TKiPGu0D3mYI7V0ExzQyKViZrCxurAEQ7eYE jMqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5iHgcxbc/qToLpkEkjeWzkA9j+hfZj7DdVPB+1oNDZsqHP+59Mq /+IDYCm1Omp1XJKo/h8WZUNdo7MCUW5QFVN/tw== X-Received: by 10.25.151.145 with SMTP id z139mr2096303lfd.101.1503636352570; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.42.215 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:45:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217803 Archived-At: --001a11402380aa9c5205578c9e3c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > Unloading a -autoload.el should be a fairly unusual occurrence, > so most users should be unaffected. True, but you're introducing a fragile code path that is only called rarely and under possibly surprising circumstances. I'm imagining things like an unexpected package left in the old package-user-dir causing an oblique side effect through its autoloads that weren't unloaded quite right -- not fun to debug at all, especially since package.el will insist that the troublesome package isn't installed! It seems like we should avoid fragility, even if said fragility probably(TM) won't affect most users. --001a11402380aa9c5205578c9e3c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Unloading a <pkg>-autoload.el should = be a fairly unusual occurrence,
> so most users should be unaf= fected.

True, but you're introducing a fragile= code path that is only called
rarely and under possibly surprisi= ng circumstances. I'm imagining
things like an unexpected pac= kage left in the old package-user-dir
causing an oblique side eff= ect through its autoloads that weren't
unloaded quite right -= - not fun to debug at all, especially since
package.el will insis= t that the troublesome package isn't installed!

It seems like we should avoid fragility, even if said fragility
probably(TM) won't affect most users.

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