From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Radon Rosborough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:04:11 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <83wp5xat6i.fsf@gnu.org> <83pobk9aly.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1cda1e51e7c205578988f7" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503623116 2899 195.159.176.226 (25 Aug 2017 01:05:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 01:05:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 25 03:05:10 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dl33e-0000Kl-5m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:05:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51011 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl33f-0002HH-8Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:05:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48580) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl33Q-0002E6-Nj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:04:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl33P-0007YK-LU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:04:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::236]:38429) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl33O-0007XP-0R; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:04:54 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id d202so4218575lfd.5; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:04:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tFhXag32q9ZvZAMACRXSXF4tjAp9AIABsd5nG8lNUNA=; b=ET8LfaoMIbXWaL0ltAKUNdilfykxSL7UcG1jdRPXj8mW0TifJYR+PxR0Dy6GWZj1co tGW21iwIXDrauVv57ESl85aE1DLChdCKdlc3ZaJjNgSbh9NrPydikA5kLSZCuaF3liQ9 jlabNcBbYMrL6dK5qkV/ZNkGyKRbdqaTu1d0qRl9DiHVYJfBaRu13FRwBq7lpyKK9qKL BJoeXfvon70aMpMUeko0ldvfqPqG0SH0vKdV9XosYrdk1U57KB0tsF8CxUVpZAvvXaaN W8Ku/S/PvKhoxJxM7icCM9lR/tWhgY7ZADeNIgtGDAMcOHxfTOLpyg26MU8pbVAPNelH S53A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tFhXag32q9ZvZAMACRXSXF4tjAp9AIABsd5nG8lNUNA=; b=WUc+zdN/NFlPrL+Ce+csbCAhj483HoMEqQWvOG0kAMw9vWhhXtMJpC0HYTk/SwEqX5 nfaxnu/CkxKyqk9RIpoovzT0ClcGdaSe5MCNdka8PO7CZIAhaN5siTsRamHaxaY2XD1g MjgLWDCcxDInEAf68Mpdu9GBwbkhCm1pOr5xw71sT0fu7E9jlTiV/SUaSrDt0vJCJfHg haL/A5ZjO4cTJzNv6AjoSt/t90ZFgDDEAh4FLpe1FCN3VSce+MWF/5w14DVHLU+EuQ6b Ohu5/Wc2pgPwHK8QFpK+Bs/bJBeN5UdBi9nazt2WKZnXD1iVVTqUPaYXmQs4sGOE8ivD 5Cvw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5i/UeRPEtRjJf2Li7tDWXVVt0D/krXS5PjA5aAt7A1BFwicIVox 6jlzJovLJ5bjNR69gZowqU0UlcA9l68s6xXvYg== X-Received: by 10.46.21.84 with SMTP id 20mr3211291ljv.72.1503623092756; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.42.215 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:04:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217792 Archived-At: --94eb2c1cda1e51e7c205578988f7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Would a ~/.emacs.d/.package-initialize.el file, to be read by > > package-initialize before it does anything else, be a better > > alternative for configurations that must be done before > > package-initialize is called? > > To me, it'd be a worst case fallback if we can't find a better > solution. That's a reasonable perspective. I personally do think that there is no better solution. Also, I really like the naming and the idea that the file is loaded by `package-initialize', not directly by startup.el. > Change package-initialize so it keeps track of what it activated and > if called a second time, perform a diff between what was activated > before and what should be activated now and based on this activate > the new pkgs and deactivate the excess ones? This will introduce performance regressions. Besides, having one part of the init process undo a bunch of stuff that a previous part did seems like a sketchy design to me. Also, it's impossible for this to work correctly in general since autoloads can run arbitrary Lisp code. > Process ~/.emacs specially so it can start with a special construct > (with-early-config ...) That seems like a hacky way to try to combine two files into one file. Wouldn't it be better to just use two files? > I've had other ideas, but they generally suck one way or another. Me too. For example, I now think that my original idea of generating a template init-file is a less effective solution than ~/.emacs.d/.package-initialize.el. --94eb2c1cda1e51e7c205578988f7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > Would a ~/.emacs.d/.package-initialize= .el file, to be read by
> > package-initialize before it do= es anything else, be a better
> > alternative for configura= tions that must be done before
> > package-initialize is ca= lled?
>
> To me, it'd be a worst case fallbac= k if we can't find a better
> solution.

That's a reasonable perspective. I personally do think that ther= e is
no better solution.

Also, I really = like the naming and the idea that the file is loaded by
`package-= initialize', not directly by startup.el.

> = Change package-initialize so it keeps track of what it activated and
<= div>> if called a second time, perform a diff between what was activated=
> before and what should be activated now and based on this a= ctivate
> the new pkgs and deactivate the excess ones?

This will introduce performance regressions. Besides, hav= ing one part
of the init process undo a bunch of stuff that a pre= vious part did
seems like a sketchy design to me. Also, it's = impossible for this to
work correctly in general since autoloads = can run arbitrary Lisp code.

> Process ~/.emacs= specially so it can start with a special construct
> (with-ea= rly-config ...)

That seems like a hacky way to try= to combine two files into one file.
Wouldn't it be better to= just use two files?

> I've had other ideas= , but they generally suck one way or another.

Me t= oo. For example, I now think that my original idea of generating a
template init-file is a less effective solution than
~/.emacs.d= /.package-initialize.el.

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