From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Radon Rosborough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:58:50 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <83wp5xat6i.fsf@gnu.org> <2d035e42-006b-e76e-2b3f-75f2dfd87bb7@taydin.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503421252 8995 195.159.176.226 (22 Aug 2017 17:00:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:00:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Timur Aydin Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 22 19:00:47 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dkCXY-0001T2-07 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 19:00:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36789 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkCXe-0004XU-1M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:00:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35988) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkCWb-0004Vl-CA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:59:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkCWa-0004yw-ML for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:59:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x22e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::22e]:32808) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkCWa-0004yi-EY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:59:32 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id d17so81935431lfe.0 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:59:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KUo9Te3K5bka9Q+zfcDToeaX6RflAFjD/KB/oi85XFk=; b=axHxP4J8g74vfslfEDXcIBDzIpAvG5Zck9PRjuW63THi0UQJu/bydKk8ywxRTT3M09 Souf0XWrT9x5tqFo2ZN5S+QKF9GvRc8IxJvHO1W6EkOxeTXh2WbzpBCGkOltt+kLBP7f JoVwH3HjMi20yU96SO+PoPiUWPXD1T2eLdl1jrS9eaEOPdY0DAUX8yfRYAM4oh+qaY0U 5/rt6D+XmmnvfvXShyFk57x9jOn766uCcAdqcLDgIW6G5wRdbOWMXOHiJZW345ZO319z Q0FpgeR/R/pxpLrngKhb+Zlr/qUv9MvhFQB0GPl9KkHJd8/jb/VhesaxwZkdk+gNYPie Q7Fw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KUo9Te3K5bka9Q+zfcDToeaX6RflAFjD/KB/oi85XFk=; b=pdVQegwjpJD+WXTG6kFfoVKNE43Ax3On600f/E+RZ3bLLm1RAmUH9JvPe3GGlDG0Ti +x9ZcfcQhZo5W7GyeENCinPrFVKlGyfH5mu1zNq7Kvmt06M1gR6FgelUQQvGQvdLyRQN rKfDXX10dD53HcrQO6r8Ktk+vKYWCZlYwMn7/91AiL5ZTkXF4evJsFG7VLZwjBws8CO3 dZUB8AvGNlvYUrWX+PF4xp2eJScjXGbryt39zmaP5Jfo5bU/oLoU+uFXRB5DwSWsrKOO IyFxlcbwPQEAwLDWTb/2XSnGLEs6pVugfj3aDWr2o4VlcH7ht8xz5WmsUrWvYQ/vqGaT Ebsw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5joUuCdeiIHxkfXXYzH/jT8S951iHkB8fjhEx2Flzxj62PoNRIf po//qL3CxtRXhSXfjmOrXsq4mvEt7PagYeCm6Q== X-Received: by 10.46.76.9 with SMTP id z9mr570131lja.134.1503421171119; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.80.3 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:58:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2d035e42-006b-e76e-2b3f-75f2dfd87bb7@taydin.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217691 Archived-At: > On what ground was item 2. dismissed in previous discussions? I've been arguing against it on the grounds that if one Emacs package out of several thousand needs an extra init-file to work right, while all the others don't, it's probably a sign of bad design on the part of the one package. In other words, it seems like needless complexity. And besides, if package.el gets its own init-file to make its job easier, why not Org? And Gnus? And Dired? And EPG? And Flymake? It would be chaos. > The only disadvantage is that there is an extra init file now. Well, consider the confusion when people put customization of package.el in their init-file and it doesn't work. I feel like we might be trading a bunch of user confusion over package customizations not working for a bunch of user confusion over package.el customizations not working. And I feel like "put package-initialize in your init-file" is an easier-to-understand resolution than "put customizations of this specific list of variables into a second init-file". > Could somebody please summarize why it's such a fundamental > rule that there can only be one emacs init file? There's no rule; just a strong precedent that's been followed for several decades (AFAIK).