From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Radon Rosborough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 13:05:19 -0600 Message-ID: References: <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87k1oeaofu.fsf@ada> <20180825103413.gbm5stsl67j6weow@Ergus> <87k1od7vzf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <875zzphy77.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004a6cfa0574e81dc0" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1535915040 30846 195.159.176.226 (2 Sep 2018 19:04:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 19:04:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, flexibeast@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel To: hw@adminart.net Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 02 21:03:56 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fwXf9-0007w4-SM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 21:03:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42209 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwXhG-0005Nz-AB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 15:06:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56049) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwXhA-0005Nm-78 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 15:06:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwXh9-0007ZQ-80 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 15:06:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]:44787) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwXh7-0007Y1-OV; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 15:05:57 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id g6-v6so13514289lfb.11; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 12:05:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7eDzNU6zUATTNFv1oSVr6DAJU9AJRaYwKx5QrbSRg9I=; b=tjVUuaPzDXDxiiHmvu1CPSQ+EuZqCvChqCpmDM7Jjpr0qUeuwFkOl0pCN2Ma095fP+ zkb3KPrDUmUa/7kbAhc+bVSEyT82boYCGl4/duJuCl53vx++obtbuOgjuhG5rWt2umhF Ted7Kg+/t/1+cF7ocj0sQiaOqciaOgVyN95bqNZcLrBVnHK2h2RuqO4H1ZG/NDg3SyG8 27SapOo4EGVLiIH/ZHekf4yuBEmnr3sRNEeW3bLKTU7YZ8JW9ku4J5KnetLEnNxhjeMp vZT9F+Xjn3b4TwRH3Pxmskgj46jiqzxz6O9z9EHmWLhdH6ka0HDQSeUZwiDNf7qTuh4L Q0/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7eDzNU6zUATTNFv1oSVr6DAJU9AJRaYwKx5QrbSRg9I=; b=eUIIwHU9a1vTWbWIIrgF646jM9EbES4zQPOQGibusmsj1uKfeFflVCWwkpyULfLK73 7zXixkeoXOv9b+YtBNKPWEcukaPFJlDggyrnxGOrbgo6ezYDU+EwiqMpEUkecp4ZkDHy 7N+xi0zW/6Td3v1tqSx8u26bjAlvAmVbm9tXPjTY3HV25RjlupwdyFNLkgwj1ChpVIZv i/MnPErtL6iV2s3nlaPmG5R4j8ju+QCYLxLs1XCWOqT3y2K7zkjroko54CUfOzF+Xx9Y eT25gEQtBgxT+rDqcyCuvbPAElJJ7Ex7mJcCAtsNZwYnz2Q7CqksEND2l765+RynXc9g nC8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51CDSza/HvYEfnGyVcKjNnIc/2QNivh6IAFEXGzrZcqPSyVx75LA NSMHC9RfcZKQ+yT4if5qmsYuGV3DCt4Edm0riTg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYjjZbsZRnNEu/Cv2roi0PRBj3st9IremJ7Z0BUPI1oLv10F4eZ5V3FGWTm84m0qtK9hdyxWGFFiHOOswnUZWg= X-Received: by 2002:a19:6b0b:: with SMTP id d11-v6mr13566105lfa.99.1535915156203; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 12:05:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <875zzphy77.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::12c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229192 Archived-At: --0000000000004a6cfa0574e81dc0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > Are you sure you notice a difference of 0.05 seconds? Yes, actually. I wouldn't notice a difference of 0.05 seconds in something that takes 2 seconds to run, but I certainly will in something that takes 0.5 seconds to run. That's 10%, after all. There's also the fact that 0.5 seconds is such a short amount of time that I really can't go and do anything else with my brain while I'm waiting. So all of my attention remains focused on the task at hand, namely waiting for Emacs to start. This is another likely explanation for why I notice such a short time difference. > Are you sure you notice a difference of 0.05 seconds when the > variance is around 0.15 seconds anyway? Yes, in fact, I am. > I can just use Emacs in a tmux session and a terminal, connecting > with ssh to the server. If you are using emacsclient, then I am pretty sure you are using the Emacs server. The server does not have to be headless -- you can start it from an otherwise normal Emacs instance. The Emacs server does not work for my workflow even when I run it on the same machine that I'm connecting from. Introducing network latency into the mix would just make things even worse. > ssh -Y server > emacsclient -nc > emacsclient -nw > > How is this difficult? In my experience, my color theme is totally broken when I connect to a graphical Emacs server with a tty client, although it works fine in both graphical and tty Emacs instances individually. That is what I was referring to. I know of at least one other person who has extensive Emacs experience who does not know how to work around this problem, so it does not appear to be trivial. > no fair comparison when you can't let it run I am sorry but I do not understand this sentence. > How do you even measure such tiny amounts of time? With the time utility supported by most shells. --0000000000004a6cfa0574e81dc0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Are you sure you notice a difference of 0.05 sec= onds?

Yes, actually. I wouldn't notice a difference of 0.= 05 seconds in
something that takes 2 seconds to run, but I certai= nly will in
something that takes 0.5 seconds to run. That's 1= 0%, after all.

There's also the fact that 0.5 seconds is = such a short amount of time
that I really can't go and do any= thing else with my brain while I'm
waiting. So all of my atte= ntion remains focused on the task at hand,
namely waiting for Ema= cs to start. This is another likely explanation
for why I notice = such a short time difference.

> Are you sure you notice a = difference of 0.05 seconds when the
> variance is around 0.15 = seconds anyway?

Yes, in fact, I am.

> I can = just use Emacs in a tmux session and a terminal, connecting
> = with ssh to the server.

If you are using emacsclient, then I = am pretty sure you are using the
Emacs server. The server does no= t have to be headless -- you can start
it from an otherwise norma= l Emacs instance.

The Emacs server does not work for my workf= low even when I run it on
the same machine that I'm connectin= g from. Introducing network latency
into the mix would just make = things even worse.

> ssh -Y server
> emacscli= ent -nc
> emacsclient -nw
>
> How is= this difficult?

In my experience, my color theme is totally = broken when I connect to a
graphical Emacs server with a tty clie= nt, although it works fine in
both graphical and tty Emacs instan= ces individually. That is what I
was referring to.

= I know of at least one other person who has extensive Emacs experience
who does not know how to work around this problem, so it does not
appear to be trivial.

> no fair comparison when you= can't let it run

I am sorry but I do not understand this= sentence.

> How do you even measure such tiny amounts of = time?

With the time utility supported by most shells.
--0000000000004a6cfa0574e81dc0--