Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Sarah Sunday]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 562 bytes --]

This patch simply changes the default value of `mouse-wheel-progressive-speed` to nil, rather than 1. This makes the initial behavior closer to that of other editors: no progressive scrolling speed. It feels like an option that should be opt-in rather than opt-out, which is why I've changed it to be off by default.


This commit was done as part of the <https://github.com/josteink/emacs-oob-reboot> emacs-oob-reboot project<https://github.com/josteink/emacs-oob-reboot>, which seeks to create a better out of the box experience for Emacs.


Thank you.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3494 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: 0001-Disable-mouse-wheel-progressive-speed.patch --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 887 bytes --]

From cde1c321c7c5aa656788ee6549ba655c84d64842 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Sarah Sunday <ssunday@users.noreply.github.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 13:28:40 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] Disable mouse wheel progressive speed

---
 lisp/mwheel.el | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/lisp/mwheel.el b/lisp/mwheel.el
index 1428e5f4d0..1232b636fb 100644
--- a/lisp/mwheel.el
+++ b/lisp/mwheel.el
@@ -134,7 +134,7 @@ mouse-wheel-scroll-amount
                     (float :tag "Fraction of window")))))
   :set 'mouse-wheel-change-button)
 
-(defcustom mouse-wheel-progressive-speed t
+(defcustom mouse-wheel-progressive-speed nil
   "If non-nil, the faster the user moves the wheel, the faster the scrolling.
 Note that this has no effect when `mouse-wheel-scroll-amount' specifies
 a \"near full screen\" scroll or when the mouse wheel sends key instead
-- 
2.14.1

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Paul Eggert]

I like the idea of having Emacs defaults being closer to what non-expert 
users expect.

Have you considered filing such change requests by sending email to 
bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org instead? That would help us track them better.

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> "PE" == Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> writes:

PE> I like the idea of having Emacs defaults being closer to what non-expert
PE> users expect.

I too like the thinking behind this change.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Stefan Monnier]

> This patch simply changes the default value of
> `mouse-wheel-progressive-speed` to nil, rather than 1. This makes the
> initial behavior closer to that of other editors: no progressive scrolling
> speed. It feels like an option that should be opt-in rather than opt-out,
> which is why I've changed it to be off by default.

This was discussed recently and the "standard" behavior is not always
the same everywhere, apparently.


        Stefan

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 17:04:35 -0400
> 
> > This patch simply changes the default value of
> > `mouse-wheel-progressive-speed` to nil, rather than 1. This makes the
> > initial behavior closer to that of other editors: no progressive scrolling
> > speed. It feels like an option that should be opt-in rather than opt-out,
> > which is why I've changed it to be off by default.
> 
> This was discussed recently and the "standard" behavior is not always
> the same everywhere, apparently.

That discussion starts here:

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-03/msg00797.html

and continues into April 2017.

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Tak Kunihiro]

>>> This patch simply changes the default value of
>>> `mouse-wheel-progressive-speed` to nil, rather than 1. This makes the
>>> initial behavior closer to that of other editors: no progressive scrolling
>>> speed. It feels like an option that should be opt-in rather than opt-out,
>>> which is why I've changed it to be off by default.
>> 
>> This was discussed recently and the "standard" behavior is not always
>> the same everywhere, apparently.
>
> That discussion starts here:
>
>   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-03/msg00797.html
>
> and continues into April 2017.

As far I remember, the discussion is still open.

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-04/msg00040.html

>> (2) Touchpad and Trackbar
>> 
>> Using touchpad or trackbar on laptop computers, I think that defaults
>> scroll too fast, especially by trackbar.  Don't you think so?
>
> I will try that later.

Did you have a chance to try that?  If not, please try it out!

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tak Kunihiro <homeros.misasa@gmail.com>
> Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 19:25:08 +0900
> 
> As far I remember, the discussion is still open.
> 
>   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-04/msg00040.html
> 
> >> (2) Touchpad and Trackbar
> >> 
> >> Using touchpad or trackbar on laptop computers, I think that defaults
> >> scroll too fast, especially by trackbar.  Don't you think so?
> >
> > I will try that later.
> 
> Did you have a chance to try that?

Given the rest of the discussion, I didn't see any need to try that.
It's not like I'm blocking the change because of that (or anything
else I said).

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Radon Rosborough]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 427 bytes --]

> (2) Touchpad and Trackbar
>
> Using touchpad or trackbar on laptop computers, I think that
> defaults scroll too fast, especially by trackbar. Don't you think
> so?

On my machine (macOS El Capitan), the default scroll speed is about
3,000 lines per second in windowed mode. Disabling progressive speed
reduces that to about 300 lines per second. Meanwhile in the terminal
it's around 60 lines per second... quite the range!

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 983 bytes --]

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Robert Weiner]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1969 bytes --]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 4:49 PM, John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>> "PE" == Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> writes:
>
> PE> I like the idea of having Emacs defaults being closer to what
> non-expert
> PE> users expect.
>
> I too like the thinking behind this change.
>

​An extensive amount of work in making Emacs and XEmacs more approachable
to new users was done years ago and was involved enough to warrant a new
name, InfoDock, essentially a turnkey version of XEmacs, though many
features were compatible with Emacs.  InfoDock also was helpful to
experienced users/software developers who wanted features automatically
exposed and easy to find when needed.  I was the primary author.

To have a look just at the extensive menubars and popup menus, see:

https://gist.github.com/rswgnu/b714e01d84f715dedc741f695dda4522
<https://gist.github.com/rswgnu/b714e01d84f715dedc741f695dda4522>

That work stopped in 1999 but the core concepts are just as usable today
and the code is still available at:

<goog_220641172>
https://sourceforge.net/projects/infodock/files/InfoDock/4.00.08/

One a tgz archive is unpacked, b​elow the infodock/id-lisp/infodock/
directory are the id-menus.el and id-menubars.el files shown in the gist
above.​

An experienced Emacs Lisp developer could get the menus of InfoDock working
as an alternative menu-UI within a week I would think.  The easymenu.el
package runs XEmacs menus pretty well, I think.  Then just update commands
as necessary.  Then people could evaluate it and see whether it is worth
adding as an option to Emacs.  The menubars themselves provide a button
that allows switching between default menus and InfoDock-style ones.  I
have assigned my Emacs code to the FSF, so the copyrights would just need
to be updated.

So instead of making small incremental changes that have small impacts,
there is a way to make major improvements fairly quickly.

Bob

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4240 bytes --]

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Tak Kunihiro]

>> >> (2) Touchpad and Trackbar
>> >> 
>> >> Using touchpad or trackbar on laptop computers, I think that defaults
>> >> scroll too fast, especially by trackbar.  Don't you think so?
>> >
>> > I will try that later.
>> 
>> Did you have a chance to try that?
>
> Given the rest of the discussion, I didn't see any need to try that.
> It's not like I'm blocking the change because of that (or anything
> else I said).

Pointing devices can be divided into two, that are one with coarse
resolution and one with fine resolution.  Several mice, touchpad, and
trackbar belong to pointing devices with fine resolution.  I understand
that current default value is good for the coarse pointing devices.

However, I thought scroll by the fine pointing device such for trackbar
with current default value is too fast and unusable, but other may have
different impression.  I think Emacs should worry about existence of the
fine pointing devices.

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Alan Third]

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 06:43:07PM +0900, Tak Kunihiro wrote:
> However, I thought scroll by the fine pointing device such for trackbar
> with current default value is too fast and unusable, but other may have
> different impression.  I think Emacs should worry about existence of the
> fine pointing devices.

I’m working (slowly) on multi‐touch support, which will hopefully
solve the problems with some fine pointing devices.

For example, the problem with the trackpad on macs is because macOS
sends an event for each two‐finger scroll movement, which can equate to
as little as a one pixel move. Emacs treats each of those events as a
whole line scroll.

The correct way to handle it is to add up the deltas until they’re
greater than or equal to a line‐height, then issue the scroll command.

-- 
Alan Third

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Sarah Sunday]

I didn’t know about that email for submitting change requests. I’ll make a note of that for next time. Thanks.

> On Aug 25, 2017, at 15:26, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
> 
> I like the idea of having Emacs defaults being closer to what non-expert users expect.
> 
> Have you considered filing such change requests by sending email to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org instead? That would help us track them better.

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Sarah Sunday]

That’s fascinating. Until it’s been fixed, I definitely think we should disable it as, Tak said, it is really troublesome to use out of the box. 

Even after the fix has been implemented, I would say keep it default off as it really feels like something the user would need to configure to compliment their mouse resolution/set-up instead of Emacs assuming for them. But that bridge can be crossed when it gets to that point.

> On Aug 27, 2017, at 06:56, Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 06:43:07PM +0900, Tak Kunihiro wrote:
>> However, I thought scroll by the fine pointing device such for trackbar
>> with current default value is too fast and unusable, but other may have
>> different impression.  I think Emacs should worry about existence of the
>> fine pointing devices.
> 
> I’m working (slowly) on multi‐touch support, which will hopefully
> solve the problems with some fine pointing devices.
> 
> For example, the problem with the trackpad on macs is because macOS
> sends an event for each two‐finger scroll movement, which can equate to
> as little as a one pixel move. Emacs treats each of those events as a
> whole line scroll.
> 
> The correct way to handle it is to add up the deltas until they’re
> greater than or equal to a line‐height, then issue the scroll command.
> 
> -- 
> Alan Third
> 

Re: Disable Mouse Wheel Progressive Speed Patch

[Clément Pit-Claudel]

On 2017-08-28 03:23, Sarah Sunday wrote:
> This makes the initial behavior closer to that of other editors: no 
> progressive scrolling speed. It feels like an option that should be 
> opt-in rather than opt-out, which is why I've changed it to be off
> by default.

> Even after the fix has been implemented, I would say keep it default
> off as it really feels like something the user would need to 
> configure to compliment their mouse resolution/set-up instead of 
> Emacs assuming for them. But that bridge can be crossed when it gets 
> to that point.

I don't strongly oppose a change of default, but wouldn't it be better to improve the scrolling implementation to make the acceleration more subtle, rather than turn it off entirely?

I'd expect most smartphone users to be familiar with accelerated scrolling, since it's a common feature in mobile browsers and and other applications.  And I'm a bit wary about requiring users to do complex adjustments to their mouse configuration.

IOW, I agree good defaults would be nice, but I'm not sure "off" is one.

Clément