From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Radon Rosborough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposals for fixing package-initialize Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 09:36:16 -0700 Message-ID: References: <873782whpz.fsf@zigzag> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1504543111 6243 195.159.176.226 (4 Sep 2017 16:38:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 16:38:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Thien-Thi Nguyen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 04 18:38:16 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1douNz-0000b9-19 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 18:38:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54861 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1douO6-00054J-0w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:38:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57127) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1douN2-0004zx-PO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:37:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1douMy-0002ue-6z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:37:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::235]:36567) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1douMs-0002r6-WF; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:36:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x235.google.com with SMTP id m199so3432429lfe.3; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 09:36:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WZoj4gXq01Ro+qtjWBCvf0DnZFwj6ySmwXtO9xcTPDM=; b=LvMJKXQ5MkcMuzyQyUhbq2IFGRPk3GwfkQ9ecf4pBAQEm4rVK8VDx8X+IoQbN9MfE6 U25D4YzZjQrhF3p/3PtF96vYFPKzk4guHcbzoHgrcBxYr3RjABFXiAIDOW08gNugzAoy W5P7LVzsXjZQKfGpPzB2LpH0ZchnC4mvvK+1wpDWD5SHLo8Xb/tVyrsvgBhn96sk44lu /aq/BAX6rC4UHyhvkHP/1v8u9SeG636KVh5go8Ow16EWDpMT6dz/K9Z+isCKtdVJbLm6 LUCQ6d5U8CQ67U4xrah3BDDnSBJoNXGsbZtegBgpFJpIGH+B/Gi1cmQA23j2cqsdo8ay KK3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WZoj4gXq01Ro+qtjWBCvf0DnZFwj6ySmwXtO9xcTPDM=; b=D4/Rt5eJy2vAA2lpR+Ob65VqRuotTLPSEPsq53yeJHcwkHjK4ShEiDujTmu6locvMv u8JrUPiDoBgA0iWtiARC0OxuoRNf08/C8XHZR+ckDSeeiuDYGnS0XQVsd+jWlTwUPPsC qRWSWrDm/8KjxDaNnUq60ieUlA2hde7tloS2pZ0G4d8XKNI4lIrVGSi4XE32gdRRGwm9 PNP8WNfGcUztl/BFFzFk9sB0lF2HawdX7Tfs37RZRrrqqHN+EpiJeTJHRV800sJflk0q BiWM5HwZ7i42fFzKPt/yrcyEVs3Qu7uWRhnDP8sYei6kUn0O3IhQKrvTZhkM1LMkcszB +ALg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiZe2uoRcIscGg3cVSShFCQPdMK7N1rZAvg4pFh3gwr2c+h5QrV WSNHcRYkESJXpBFNn5rGTVR4bqD6iokwOGg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5F20wbn05nK66hEhFnDhrD9wcubzcVm6aFtPGjupq5V3pgpk//m8Zt8qQNi4g1cfOg6vuW2m54zdPCKpyB1Cs= X-Received: by 10.25.79.21 with SMTP id d21mr301187lfb.246.1504543017381; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 09:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.84.221 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 09:36:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <873782whpz.fsf@zigzag> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::235 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217926 Archived-At: > It's hyperbole to say nobody has any idea, however -- there are > several general text-oriented serialization formats that people have > already defined (e.g., YAML, JSON, sexps). Any of these can be > easily adapted to the package-metadata domain. Oh, I certainly agree. The difficulty I see is that many people want to do their package (and package manager) configuration dynamically. For example, set package-load-list so that only packages are loaded which aren't in some folder used for active development. Or only interface with the package manager at arbitrary times to effect deferred installation. So a purely declarative format will never work, because of all the interesting use cases it would exclude; it has to be an imperative format that nevertheless allows Emacs some more control than the present. Or a declarative format that allows for as much customizability as an imperative one.