From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Radon Rosborough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:02:11 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <83d17qcfa1.fsf@gnu.org> <83h8x0c206.fsf@gnu.org> <83efs4byzj.fsf@gnu.org> <83378kba5u.fsf@gnu.org> <750a7e07-555e-3820-74ed-00bb6d604c5a@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503419280 25218 195.159.176.226 (22 Aug 2017 16:28:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:28:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Pit=2DClaudel?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 22 18:27:56 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dkC1n-0005XM-R1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:27:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60500 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkC1r-0000NJ-AO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:27:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42232) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkBdr-0004Sc-Na for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkBdm-000096-0w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:02:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x22f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f]:37235) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkBdl-00008L-PL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:02:53 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id f7so61428970lfg.4 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:02:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KDk2HoFyNjMmOsuvMw5I5cqmYja2Hj6tUcCYd6myCq0=; b=D/37by4g204TNGRALj2rNAH6mwKqXgD1BMubJ4zbfGR4zofHlBWL+VsPTZYChweq3p MBYuGJczAt5mlfmJrmyFH4u65Fz8U0lowBr6PGMToF8eCf4TI4Av5CjwebLcNzLm7St8 9IwrJxWBcg9sUkUrLq9WWPLgBBiU71xPzopt4hmyGnVEIaI/dGY2K111fBSTVv1UiWRK fAsK00M9nzaaFD5fDv327EhH86tsGZc3UyvsbX1g6bNJ1s+44Kf4ghteu/UJLKq0+Ejc vV5G09YGNb6Bq/6CjWrFp5SX1zmwSgz5J0expDpTbwZ46x2aAoedRTzLJoTFJNQrBrZt KeBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KDk2HoFyNjMmOsuvMw5I5cqmYja2Hj6tUcCYd6myCq0=; b=S8RYmANRjk8iySjlw2C3yYsyLLmxqN3Nr4SdL3IUdpOUTZsP0j5yX+JQugAazQk088 8mY5Giys77sNmP1Ns8ySpU9PmuwwAbrf5g8dBtDMdZfaN+6O/Dgixmo0YFMqzXqWFYCm Z0mvgxXe7475g2Z433bzOTnhq+1sIDLQc/tElF2Tq1ZapLJeqIlup101fTXjPO55PlFR ohjaJikyuhrLQ444T6RBm6h0LTAXW0VCqSsM6J6bx2s3IoyBm8fbagEIbGRPjPjbNvYG GPAhseSAVKj/T5z/G8ZD7vfiFIQ6krD8c/HLy3dQMIeupyGHZpCBLc/rKsY0vOciMTuO J8Eg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5j4chGn+8gHNWqFD7IhYjSECQU57dUib1671aaUYKTnRLcr21i5 CGl4UfiIjYDdQVFk8P8EIQrBrWdwBg== X-Received: by 10.46.88.68 with SMTP id x4mr493647ljd.153.1503417772437; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.80.3 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:02:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <750a7e07-555e-3820-74ed-00bb6d604c5a@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217686 Archived-At: > That's incorrect. We don't need to decide the halting problem =E2=80=94 w= e > just need to semi-decide it, which is trivial. You are of course correct. I didn't go through this in my last email since I thought it was already too long and technical, but I will now. > Start Emacs. Load init.el. Record the value of package-load-list. Exit > Emacs. Yep, this would work. Unfortunately, it's impossible in practice without actually loading the init-file twice, which I hope everyone agrees is a non-starter. (In particular, the properties of the init-file may rely on arbitrary filesystem and network calls, which cannot be analyzed without actually performing them. Loading the init-file twice when it was supposed to be loaded once is therefore technically incorrect, even if there *probably* wouldn't be any correctness problems in practice.) Because of this problem, the fact that the problem is actually semi-decidable doesn't have any practical consequences, and so I didn't mention it. I probably should have. Sorry about that. I overgeneralized in my previous email, but I think that my general point (this approach will not work in general) still stands.