From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: non-gnu elpa issue tracking Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 02:37:16 +1100 Message-ID: References: <20201209125516.lenqswi7fhiscbr2@E15-2016.optimum.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8036205b6462fff" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20032"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jean Louis , Richard Stallman , thibaut.verron@gmail.com, Boruch Baum , Emacs developers , Stefan Kangas To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 12 19:57:21 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1koA53-00056a-7e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 19:57:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50078 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koA52-00027x-4O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 13:57:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59720) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ko9Yf-0007OQ-CD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 13:23:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ua1-x92a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a]:40684) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ko9Yd-0003mQ-Dl; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 13:23:53 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ua1-x92a.google.com with SMTP id y25so502888uaq.7; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 10:23:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Gy+ShoQEVtiPw0r9oeq+5EiMVmvfkbTlns1YXd1u4k0=; b=AWmZUq48ZPNN04npoDbth3eiTDcQWAkpwfb9TlstUY5GCH27xpxucBjzfhAcebbogo zFHa+/jkp/ZAw3PYeumCmvCtgs4LKPGE3Ku7QIu8MISV+5SDx7Vp4E7340vah3uZSmcr 81UOufxcy5oegBqzff/PWbef2sblRNJbpq7Vim/bHWSQDOLzMsND4d1pKjy31aDlNqSZ H/f8HkoDtEd7+PHlQ5PT2V2dU1HjDrK2XPBUosX8qR3GqR0RqrXfEz2/VZrgGczgzpe6 WeVN+8LOUuHSwxn2qEySD2JTtiyZQPMXi2H9jEmjmCCHcVPGT7ABbZfu5jSQDizcgwBB bvxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Gy+ShoQEVtiPw0r9oeq+5EiMVmvfkbTlns1YXd1u4k0=; b=RcYQOr4l8EPhlLovbni1pVt2P8uD8i3O+3GIq8OomhQWVp9IvSYQaO6uIDCDYwoj9s O0RD0Nrks+hjwl0vsTMhaQeLv5zDvUBZ1dcOTPSdYFsH9COUpkGxCritYayhGGGkDTZt MjvKmoZHP2E2GUJ/gXbIzQPpD/uTrcEr2iCRxHOr2Xsn1aqitLK5tFokrljDx5exvnc/ Lj15BR0xR4syYHU/cszHeq8ccKyJj21I+UB+r2dz3KQJnHssiuGSsfYB7HpT+UsK8e9N mAUz09BUdxhMEK6anbQhTIYVF9FmvCpq5epLoyfbq8ETTIjRpiTPyKrYWypYGdkqLqRN EmDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530brWNncGGiybWkaSP+rOFk9kCLq28qd2Ut3kRZdYE0MF3Ej4Sn B+HQtgqlNZBC135PtWWpOrMNQcHERx2wkQSo70Ac7pF5fCc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyWHH1NYcgNSEffT6hilPhqQJIusjWmBdiViaJnV+hfWGriqbBJyH9Xvh51nx52ohu6ZdtstKbSdX/h0qW4wzs= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2c63:: with SMTP id f90mr13785058otb.325.1607787447057; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 07:37:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x92a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260715 Archived-At: --000000000000a8036205b6462fff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 00:50, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > The non-GNU ELPA is supposed to be a repository for packages which are > GPL > > compliant and it is a reasonable expectation that those who make their > > packages GPL compliant do so because they support the philosophical goals > > of the FSF. > > The overwhelming majority of ELisp packages out there are hosted on > Github (that also applies to many GNU ELPA packages, many of them are > developed by long time contributors to Emacs), so I think the evidence > shows the above expectation doesn't hold at all. > > Maybe. However, it could also be a combination of the fact github was the first free git hosting environment and is the better known one. Just because it is this way now doesn't mean it has to be. If the GNU/FSF doesn't take a clear position on this and do something to discourage the use of hosting environments that force the use of proprietary software, this will not change and eventually all we will have are the proprietary solutions. It may not have been the right decision to allow code which has assigned copyright to the FSF to remain on Github. However, as non-GNU ELPA is just getting started, now would be a good time to try and change things. I'm also not convinced about arguments suggesting too much inertia or too much hassle in moving to a new hosting platform. Lots of packages which use to be hosted on sourceforge have moved to Github. There are few technical barriers to moving git repositories to a new hosting platform. However, there has to be some incentive to do so. It also seems inconsistent to have so many packages, both GNU ELPA and non-GNU ELPA packages hosted on a platform which is so far from being acceptable from a FSF philosophical perspective. Makes it feel like the FSF fails to eat their own dog food. -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --000000000000a8036205b6462fff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 00:50, Stefan = Monnier <monnier@iro.umontre= al.ca> wrote:
> The non-GNU ELPA is supposed to be a repository for packages whic= h are GPL
> compliant and it is a reasonable expectation that those who make their=
> packages GPL compliant do so because they support the philosophical go= als
> of the FSF.

The overwhelming majority of ELisp packages out there are hosted on
Github (that also applies to many GNU ELPA packages, many of them are
developed by long time contributors to Emacs), so I think the evidence
shows the above expectation doesn't hold at all.

Maybe. However, it could also be a combination of the= fact github was the first free git hosting environment and is the better k= nown one. Just because it is this way now doesn't mean it has to be. If= the GNU/FSF doesn't take a clear position on this and do something to = discourage the use of hosting environments that force the use of proprietar= y software, this will not change and eventually all we will have are the pr= oprietary solutions. It may not have been the right decision to allow code = which has assigned copyright to the FSF to remain on Github. However, as no= n-GNU ELPA is just getting started, now would be a good time to try and cha= nge things.=C2=A0

I'm also not convinced about= arguments suggesting too much inertia or too much hassle in moving to a ne= w hosting platform. Lots of packages which use to be hosted on sourceforge = have moved to Github. There are few technical barriers to moving git reposi= tories to a new hosting platform. However, there has to be some incentive t= o do so.=C2=A0 It also seems inconsistent to have so many packages, both GN= U ELPA and non-GNU ELPA packages hosted on a platform which is so far from = being acceptable from a FSF philosophical perspective. Makes it feel like t= he FSF fails to eat their own dog food.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<= /div>--
regards,

Tim

--
Ti= m Cross

--000000000000a8036205b6462fff--